Mark: Welcome to unsuitable on Rea Radio, the unique financial services and business advisory show that challenges your old school business practices and the traditional business suit culture. On this show you’ll hear from industry professionals who will challenge you to think beyond the suit and tie culture while offering you meaningful modern solutions to help you enhance your company’s growth. I’m your host Mark Van Benschoten. Whether you’re trying to implement a more efficient way of doing business or you’re searching for a way to maintain your company’s hold and market share, your team is the key to your success.
Last week Pat Porter provided us with a little insight into the art of recruiting. If you haven’t already listened to that go back and listen to episode number 29. This week we’ll talk about what happen next, after the new hire finishes their paperwork and it’s all filed. On part 2 of this miniseries about your company’s most valuable resources, the employees, Annie Yoder who’s a principal at Rea and Don McIntosh who’s Rea Chief Leadership Officer will talk about the importance of having a structured training and development program. Welcome to unsuitable, Annie. I want to call Donnie, Annie and Donnie’s show.
Annie: Thank you, Mark.
Don: Thanks Markie, I appreciate that.
Mark: That’s good. Annie a little question for you, did you stay up for the game last night?
Annie: What game? Kobe’s game?
Mark: No.
Annie: My team? Steph’s game.
Mark: Steph’s game.
Annie: I am a Warrior’s fan. I probably shouldn’t say that here. I did not.
Mark: You did not?
Annie: I was in bed at 8:30, if you can’t tell I have a cold.
Mark: Not feeling well? Sorry about that. Don, do you like apples?
Don: Yes I do.
Mark: Do you like McIntosh apples?
Don: It’s the only type of apple that my wife will use for making apple pie.
Mark: That’s very good. Do you that it was originally founded in Canada, the McIntosh apple?
Don: No, I didn’t know that.
Mark: No? I did, and here’s how somebody described them, please don’t get mad, “Poor in color, soft flesh and tends to fall from trees before the harvest.” Is that you?
Don: I’ve fallen numerous times, so that might be right.
Annie: Let me chime in and say, that sounds perfect.
Mark: I saw that and I thought that was appropriate. Sorry for having a little humor at your expense there Don. We’re talking about a structured training and development program. When I saw that I said, “We have one.” We’re required to get 40 hours of CPE. Don’t we already have a structured training program?
Annie: Right, Mark you’re talking about compliance specifically, but we are looking well beyond the compliance aspect of what we have to get. When you’re talking about structured, we’re talking about soft skills beyond just that compliance piece.
Mark: Not to be a negative guy but, they tell me I need 40, I’m going to get my 40. Why do I need something different?
Don: Mark in today’s world the cost of a CPE is pretty high. The most important thing we can do is get the most bang for the buck. What we want to do is we want to raise up leaders as well as people who understand the technical side of things.
Mark: That was specific for Rea and what we’re trying to go through and accomplish the Rea Academy. Would you offer this up for any business? Any organization?
Don: I think I definitely would. It’s absolutely critical than there’s more than a technical side of things. Every business, no matter if it’s a CPA firm or another firm, is looking at leadership. They’re looking at who’s going to be taking over, who can contribute, who can create opportunities for the future. That’s not what you’re going to get as far as technical CPE.
Mark: When we set this about, what do we want to accomplish? How are we going to know if we’re successful? Somebody if they have a structured program, how are they going to know if they’re successful?
Annie: A lot of it is going to be recruiting the best talent and maintaining that talent in the organization, pulling those folks in. We hear a lot today about the talent crisis, again not just in CPA firms but in our clients’ businesses, is finding folks to be successful in their organization. To be able to recruit those people and keep them in and to watch their careers progress, that’s where we can measure that it was successful.
Mark: Is there anything on how much you should be spending on per employee? Is there a benchmark out there? I assume it changes by industry.
Annie: Yeah. I can speak to the CPA firm specifically, and it’s roughly around 1.5% to 2% of revenue. I would say that’s maybe fairly consistent across industries, maybe a little bit lower obviously depending on the size of your organization, you’ll have to look into that, but bottom line if you’re not spending any money on training currently or have any type of formal programs, what a benefit to your employees to show that you care about increasing both professionally and personally what they’re doing.
Mark: It’s a great point. I would assume those clients who aren’t spending anything probably have significant turn over.
Annie: Yes, there’s definitely a correlation there.
Mark: Those employers probably have the attitude, “I can replace that person. It’s a butt in the seat. Them as an individual doesn’t matter to me.” Kind of sad.
Don: I think that’s very sad, but the most important thing I think the owners of businesses really need to take a look at is, what do we really need? How do we design training programs for our people and for our management team, for people out on the lines? Whatever it might be, it has to be designed specifically for that company, for those particular people to get the biggest reward for everyone, the employees, the owners, everyone. It’s for everyone to win. We believe that it has to be very directed, continuing education, and that could be technical, it could be soft skills, it could be all over the board actually.
Mark: You bring up that it’s for everyone, and I personally believe in that, but I could somebody saying, “They’ve only been with me 2 years, when they get here 10 years then I’ll give them some training.”
Annie: Let’s talk specifics for a second, can you imagine in a physician’s office, you’re hiring a bookkeeper to come in or someone to process billing. Can you imagine if you gave them some communication skills? You increase those and add some formal training in communication so that they could communicate both internally and externally. What a huge development process for that person and for your organization.
Mark: I see a downside to that, that’s what my dad likes to do, he likes to call his doctor once a week to figure out what’s going on, if there’s good communication skills he wouldn’t have anything to do.
Annie: That’d be maybe bad for your dad, good for the organization.
Mark: Good point, very good point. Setting up a structured program I think it could be daunting, where do we start? The training that I need, it’s a different training than you need, than the person at the front desk needs. How do you get started?
Annie: I would say Don already hit the nail on the head when he says, “Let’s figure out what we truly want to accomplish.” Let’s start there, what do we want to develop, and then we can start to earmark individual people to what they need.
Don: I would totally agree with that. In our firm, we’re taking a look from the very top at the partner group, down to the new employees and we’re trying to design the programs necessary for each and every level to succeed and be able to get to the next level if that’s what they choose to do. I think every company really is wanting that.
Mark: I think you’re right, to Annie’s example of the bookkeeper’s in the physician’s office, what do we want from that position? What do we hope for that position to have and say, with the end in mind, some assessment I assume of the person. What skill sets do they currently have? What would be part of this? An assessment of the bookkeeper, are they good at debits and credits?
Don: I think the first thing you want to do is you want to assess what that job responsibility is. Is that what you’re speaking of?
Mark: Yes.
Don: Yeah, you definitely want to go there. Then what you have to do, you have to evaluate the employees that you actually have and see what their skillset is. You have to have a decent evaluation process to figure that out.
Annie: That’s why you bringing up Pat Porter in the recruiting process, it all correlates with one another.
Mark: Again, it seems to be overwhelming to me and you two are living it and you’re doing it. To our listeners, try to give them, “Okay, here’s the first bite of that McIntosh apple.” Design what you want the result to be, here’s what we’re looking for. An assessment is part of the process. What would come next?
Annie: Start talking to people. Start talking to other organizations that have implemented and have been successful. That, for me I can tell you from experience, is the biggest thing. Find the experts out there that have done it already because they are more than willing to help you. It’s very difficult to navigate the web of vendors and et cetera when you’re dealing with training, so find the folks out there that have done it successfully.
Don: When we took a look at what we want to do at Rea & Associates, one of the things that Annie did was she did a large number of research calls to a lot of firms. She figured out what the programs, what they had. Not only what they had but why they did it. What they did that worked, what they did that didn’t work, what they’re planning on doing in the future as they continue to morph their programs. I believe every company needs to take a look at that. There’s no cookie cutter way to do this, you have to do your research.
Mark: What works for you.
Don: Right, what works for you, what works for the type of people that you hire. But Annie also said something earlier that’s critical, it’s the recruiting process. You have to be able to recruit people, no matter what company you have, that are going to meet the vision of your company. Where do you want to go?
Mark: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Don: What kind of people do you want to have on your boat, cruising down the river with you? If you hire correctly then you’re going to create an environment along with this educational process to be able to develop people quickly, in a way that they have passion for what they’re doing.
Mark: I think, getting a sense, you go through this and it’s not just for the company’s benefit. The individual’s also going to personal benefit.
Annie: Absolutely, they can take these skills away, not just the technical stuff but more of the soft skill, communication and well beyond that. They can take that home with them and use it. Absolutely.
Mark: Is there a downside? Maybe it’s not a downside, it’s just a reality, but you figure out some people won’t fit in your organization?
Don: I’m getting a look so apparently I have to answer that as a Chief Leadership Officer. Yeah, there’s absolutely people that are not going to fit in your organization. That’s any organization. You have to evaluate whether or not that person is important enough to the company, and the chances are they’re not. If they don’t fit, they don’t fit.
Mark: It doesn’t mean they’re bad or anything like that. They don’t fit and they’d probably be better served working somewhere else.
Annie: The great thing is if you do have any type of training programs for your individuals and you’ve exhausted those training programs, you know truly you have something to stand on.
Mark: You’ve done all you could.
Annie: You’ve done what you need to do to try to help them both professionally and personally, but maybe they aren’t good for the organization.
Mark: You would like to think that they would have that acknowledgement.
Annie: Correct, exactly.
Mark: “I’ve been through all this, it still doesn’t fit. I could spread my wings somewhere else.” They would probably feel better about themselves.
Annie: Right, absolutely.
Mark: We talked about that it applies to any business, doctor’s office, I would think a manufacturing setting, people on the line, maybe they’re training, it could be communication. I think as you work on the line that would be important. Technical, if you’re a welding shop, here’s some welding, what’s going on in the welding industry. Maybe some safety and health training I would think would be appropriate. This could be all encompassing.
Annie: Absolutely. It goes back to what done said earlier, what’s the vision and mission and the strategic plan of your organization, because this can all tie back to that.
Mark: It’s a great point. If you sat there and said, “For our line we want to cut down on workplace injuries.” Okay, let’s have some education. Let’s make that part of our training program, as to what that is and come up with specifics, not, “Here’s something off the shelf.”
Annie: Right, absolutely. It could be even something from a cost perspective, do we want to send our 2 supervisors and they come back and they disseminate that information down the line. From a cost perspective there are ways to figure out how it can be cost effective for our organization.
Don: I think you will that educated people, and what I mean by educated people, people who totally understand their job responsibility and how it ties into the overall goal of the company, or maybe it’s a product, how does what they do impact the product that the company is putting out. The more that they understand that, and the more that you can train them to do that as well as possible, the more powerful you have as an employee group. You’re going to be able to be … Your product quality will go up, your profitability will go up, your employee retention will go up, and that is absolutely key to every businesses. Keeping the key employees that they want to keep.
Mark: Right, it’s a good point. As we’re talking it makes me think of something back in my colleges days that I learned about hope, and I hope I’m saying the right thing, a Hawthorne-like company, they went and did an experiment. They had 2 groups of people, in one group they were messing with the lighting. They have it bright and they would dim it, it made for a difficult situation but that group of employees got a lot of attention because everybody want to see how they were going to react. That employee group outperformed the stable group. It has because they got attention, that somebody was paying attention to them in a negative but … I think this here is attention, as an employee somebody is interested in Mark. “Here’s skills, we think you could use some of this and here’s a non-threatening way to do it for you to improve yourself Mark.” I think that would be awesome if people would really get excited about that.
Don: I totally agree with you, but most of all I’m stunned that you can remember what happened in college. Getting back to your point …
Mark: Me too, it’s been a tough few days.
Don: We think it’s absolutely critical for all companies quite frankly to have some type of performance coaching program. That’s what we’ve implemented here at Rea. It’s really big dividends with that. The employees like it. We’re giving direct feedback. You mentioned something earlier and you’re right on target, employees need feedback, “How am I doing?” They want to know. They want to do a good job. It’s absolutely critical that we spend enough time with them and give them good honest feedback. What’s the good, what’s the bad, what’s the ugly? Talk about that and how we can perform better. That is what they want to hear, that is what we hear from our team, that’s what we’re hearing from other CPA firms that we’re talking to, is that the employees want the feedback. You have to invest time and energy in them.
Mark: To give the feedback, to be able to communicate it in the most positive way. I mean, if it’s negative it’s for their benefit, not just, “1 to 5 you’re a 1, see you next year.” Communicate with them as to why they got what they got.
Don: Your employees are your greatest assets.
Mark: Yes they are.
Don: You have to treat them that way.
Mark: A lot of times people don’t. Annie you mentioned that there’s multiple vendors out there. I think we technology, does that play a part into this?
Annie: Yeah, technology definitely plays a part because when people think about training a lot of times they automatically think, “I’m going to have to put my folks in cars and send them somewhere.”
Mark: Butts in the seats.
Annie: Right, butts in the seat. But the technology, it’s very likely that they could pull webinars here. They can do this electronically and they can do it from anywhere. Again from a cost perspective, folks out there should not get nervous about, “I don’t have another $40,000 to spend on training for my folks.” What if you spend 500 and it’s just as effective? Correct.
Mark: Somebody’s listening, they’re going to be inspired by our session here. “I’m going to do this.” What’s the very first thing they should do? Call you Annie?
Annie: Yeah they can definitely call me to get some advice, because I can start helping them, point them in the right direction because it’s definitely a twisted web to navigate.
Mark: How long have you been working on this?
Annie: Wow, good question. Couple of years.
Mark: First one of the day.
Annie: Feels like.
Mark: Couple years?
Annie: Yeah I think it’s been about 2 years, a year and a half, 2 years.
Mark: Still a long way to go?
Annie: Still a long way to go. We’re definitely making progress but it’s baby steps. That’s something else to bring up, you can’t accomplish this all at once, break it out into little segments and try to say, “In the next 3 months I want to accomplish X,” and move forward from there, because you cannot, it’s impossible to do all at once.
Don: I don’t think I would wait until you found the most perfect way to do this. You’re going to have to feel your way around. Give it a try, some of it will be a flop, the large majority of it if you’re doing anything at all will be very successful.
Mark: That’s a great point. Great point, just try it, you’re going to make a mistake and learn from that, put that to your own education and retool and get back out there. This sounds very exciting and I know we’re getting started with it at Rea, and I’m excited to be a part of it. I think our greatest assets, our employees, are going to be excited to have this feedback and some personalized attention and training. I think it’s going to be extremely successful at Rea. I can’t wait to see the results.
Don: Thanks. We’re pretty excited about that. As Annie’s going to be running our Rea Academy, we’re going to try to put everything we can possibly think of into that Rea Academy under that umbrella as far as our training programs. From leadership to technical to …
Mark: Time management?
Don: IT, you name it.
Mark: I think it’s important to have it all encompassing.
Don: It is.
Mark: It’s not any different, like, “This person is special because they got … “It’s all part of the Rea Academy.
Don: It is. It lines up directly with our Rea Advantage, our strategic plan. I believe every company has a strategic plan out there. I think this really should be something they should be thinking about that’s really going to help support their vision and what they want to accomplish, either in 1 year, 2 years, 3 years. It will take a little bit of time to get set up but it will be well worth it.
Mark: Great point. Before we wrap up we always have one question at the end. Annie is a return guest so your question is going to be a little bit different, so if you’ve been preparing for the old one then you’re out of luck. We switched it up for Annie so today’s question is, if you could be someone else for a day, who would it be? If you feel so inclined tell us why. For me it would be Winston Churchill, I think he’s just, somebody’s out there and was a leader in a difficult time and stood up.
Annie: Right. I don’t think mine’s that awesome. I’d like to be Steph Curry for a day.
Mark: Steph Curry? Making 400 3-pointers.
Annie: I’d like to make 400 3-pointers. I’d like to get some of that attention.
Mark: Don?
Don: I get the same question?
Mark: Yeah, yeah.
Don: I think I’d like to be president for the day. Only because I would like to make some policy or push some policy, see if I can make some changes within one day, and plus learn what all is going on. I think that would be unbelievable to be the president of the United States for a day.
Mark: That would be exciting. You probably wouldn’t sleep, right? You’d just go and run for 24 hours.
Don: Yeah, 24 straight.
Mark: There you go. Annie and Don thank you for joining us today. Listeners, I hope you found today’s episode to be valuable. I certainly did. To learn more about what you can do to promote the ongoing development of your employees visit www.reacpa.com/podcast. Until next time I’m Mark Van Benschoten encouraging you to loosen up your tie and think outside the box.
