Doug Houser:
Not from Rea & Associates studio, this is the unsuitable road show, a management and financial services podcast for entrepreneurs, tenured business leaders and others who are ready to look beyond the suit and tie culture for meaningful measurable results. I'm Doug Houser. On this weekly podcast, thought leaders and business professionals break down complicated and mundane topics and give you the tips and insight you actually need to grow as a leader and help your organization thrive. If you haven't already, hit the subscribe button so you don't miss future episodes. And if you want access to even more information, show notes and exclusive content, visit our website at www.reacpa.com/podcast and sign up for our weekly podcast newsletter.
Doug:
Today's workforce consists of three distinct groups of people, baby boomers, Gen X, and millennials. And they all seem to be arguing over which one is better. Problem solving, work ethic and leadership skills are all up for debate. But at the end of the day, it's important to remember that underneath the titles and classifications, we're all just people who are looking to carve out a place in the world. On this episode of unsuitable, Cindy Kula, a baby boomer in Ray's Cleveland office where we are today, and Erin Klein, a millennial in our Medina office, will attempt to get beyond generational differences to ultimately uncover the opportunities that cooperation in the workplace, regardless of age, can create. Welcome to unsuitable, Cindy and Erin.
Cindy:
Thanks, Doug.
Erin:
Thanks, Doug.
Doug:
So we were talking at lunch quite a bit about generational differences, and you two have just such a great rapport, I think. And so talk about what helps you bridge that "generational" gap. What is it?
Cindy:
I'm not sure. I know that it's hard to see someone in the younger generation come through and say, "Hey." And actually they do things better than I do. And they really do. I mean, when it comes to technology or when it comes to just putting the work papers together, I can see them doing so much better than I will. And they understand the software so much better than I do. I think that, well the way Erin and I balance ourselves out is that I'm pretty high-strung. I really am.
Doug:
Cindy, you? Come on.
Cindy:
And especially when things don't work out the way I thought and Erin has this way of balancing me out, really calming me down and making realize that there's other aspects of the task or the job or the opportunity that we have that we can work together on this.
Doug:
I love that. That's great. So Erin, what about your perspective? What do you see? What makes it work so well professionally as you collaborate and work together?
Erin:
I think the number one thing Cindy and I have, because we weren't always this great, we had about a month starting off, we got a little rough that first month, but it came down to her and I aligning what our expectations were, and then building a relationship in which our communication with each other was clear and concise and respectful.
Doug:
But did you have communication gaps because of an age difference at all in the way you communicate? How do you bridge that?
Erin:
The first year that we worked together and the first month or so there was, Cindy expected more communication via email updates than I was, I'm going to say inept to provide as a month millennial, "Yep. I've got it. I'm good. I'll let you know when I got questions. Check in with you later. We're good." Cindy wasn't quite on that, but as soon as we recognized that difference, then we were able to sit down, aligning our expectations and then just saying, "Cindy, I'm going to provide you with more communications. It's going to increase my skill set in communications with both you as a internal client, but also developing those skills for external clients." And Cindy recognizing, "Okay, she's going to communicate with me. I'll be able to transfer my knowledge to her. I'm going to throw out all of these topics we need to consider and then trust her to follow up on those items and then we can talk about what I needed to follow up with the client."
Doug:
Yeah. That's awesome. So Cindy, what about your perspective? Is that kind of a fair assessment out of the gate? Did you maybe struggle with, "Okay, how does Erin like to communicate a little differently or how do we bridge this gap here?"
Cindy:
I think the biggest thing that happened initially was that we are not in the same office. So when you have to work remotely with someone, it does make the communication a little bit different. I think Erin was aware and it was really her suggestion what she will do going forward as far as how she was going to at least communicate with me. But I could honestly say it's only been two solid years, I think for this client that we have and that I think I can walk away tomorrow and I think Erin could give them the same service that they're accustomed to and the transition would be pretty easy.
Doug:
So talk about that from the client perspective. Do they recognize and understand diversity in terms of how each of you communicates with them and if they sort of adapted to that a little bit? Have you seen some of that, or has it changed much from their perspective?
Erin:
I don't think it's really changed that much from their perspective necessarily. I think Cindy's generation has a lot to offer millennials in the best way to communicate with clients. I mean, especially this particular client, they are not themselves millennials. And so my ability to work and learn great communication skills to use with Cindy is transitioning into my ability to use those same skills and repertoire to service the client in the way that they expect. We can't expect a baby boomer client to get on board with the millennial workforce. I mean, they're the client, they're always right.
Erin:
And so if they expect that personal phone call or they expect that immediate follow-up, I mean there's certain give and take, but I've learned skills from Cindy as to what needs immediate attention and when the client needs immediate attention. Even if it's, "Hey, I got your message, I'm going to look into it and I'm going to call you tomorrow."
Doug:
Excellent point.
Erin:
Millennials need to develop that in real life there isn't this little text message bubble that says, message seen, or dot, dot, dot, person's texting back now. There isn't that in real life and in millennials and Generation X, we're so used to this technology where, "Oh yeah, my friend saw that I asked her if she wants to go out to dinner on Saturday, she saw it. She'll get back to me when she knows." In the real world the client goes, "Did they get the message? Do they know I'm buying this piece of equipment? Do they know I have a question?" And so working intergenerational wise teaches you new skills that you need for all your clients. And so now if Cindy picks up a millennial generation client, maybe she's picked up and knows that just because they don't respond right away, doesn't mean that they are ignoring her or didn't see her message.
Cindy:
Sometimes I think the millennials think a lot more before they respond. I do believe that. My kids are millennials and that's how they don't even respond to me immediately. And I think they're really thinking about things.
Doug:
Interesting.
Cindy:
They've even told me before I'd say, "Hey mom, why don't you sit back and you think about that before you really respond." So I think that it is a different mindset where I thought immediacy was more important to them.
Doug:
It was more polite.
Cindy:
Right. Right now I think that the biggest thing that my generation or whatever you want to call me a boomer is to copy and to include the millennial on emails or in conference calls or even in meetings. We went to lunch with this client and I think that they have to be included just so that you can see that the transition is there.
Doug:
I think that's a great way to look at it. Plus I think that diversity is important too. Can you talk a little bit, each of you, maybe you can go first, Cindy, about what you've seen in terms of bringing that diversity to solving problems and within client relationships, things like that? There's a different viewpoint.
Cindy:
It is a different viewpoint and it's a younger viewpoint and we can go back to technology again, but you know, texting. But it does bring in a viewpoint that I may not have seen in the past or because of something they may have read, and this is how the world reacts to something. It's not necessarily the way I would have reacted to it, but it is a perspective. And I think we all have to appreciate that fact that there are perspectives out there and I can honestly say that boomers didn't really do that. They were pretty much narrow minded and focused. I really feel that sometimes we don't give the younger generations a chance, because we know it all. I have always loved the philosophy that there's always a better way, even if it's not my way.
Doug:
That's phenomenal that you are willing to have that perspective. So, Erin, from your side of things, what do you see? Do you see the value in that kind of diversity of thought and addressing some of those things? I mean, obviously somebody like Cindy who is a such a valuable resource in our firm because she's got such a wealth of knowledge and experience, you want to capture that, but yet take your own kind of diverse viewpoint in using that.
Erin:
It's extremely important and I think the clients benefit from that diversity. Whereas if Cindy and I are working on an idea, a project, upcoming event together for the client, she's going to be thinking possibly out of it at a technical standpoint. Let's get into the nitty gritty of exactly how it's going to be reported on the financial statements and the nitty gritty of, the difference in the tax bracket is going to be 37 or 34. A millennial might identify more with the the owner of the company versus the financials and while it might look like the millennial who is on Facebook and now knows that this individual has a new kid and is interested in a certain podcast perhaps-
Doug:
Unsuitable.
Erin:
Unsuitable, of course, of course, the only one out there that's worth listening to. But I'm as a millennial maybe going to bring a different topic that we need to address with the client instead of the gap treatment of this type of income, let's address with the client, "You've got all this wonderful money, what are you going to do with it now?" Let's not worry about the tax 37 or 34, let's talk about what it means for you this year and next year in your lifestyle, talking about the lifestyle and things like that.
Doug:
So that's, yeah, just bringing those perspectives together, you want to try to encompass all of that. If you have that dialogue with a client, more comes to the surface and you can better serve their interests in the long run. That's awesome. So we talked a little bit about communication as a generational difference and maybe a little bit about technology and, Erin, we'll start with you, what other generational differences do you see that really stick out to you in the workplace? Different motivations or things, what do you see?
Erin:
I think there's a huge difference in the work life balance, but also the attitude of where my career is going. I think a lot of times, a lot of boomers, not all, but a lot of boomers got into the industry, whether it's accounting or it's a client got into their industry and it's like, "I'm going to go, go, go and I'm going to grow, grow, grow, and I'm going to do more and I'm going to go up and I'm going to retire as a VP, and that's success. I have to do better than my father did. I have to continuously go up the ladder." I think millennials and Gen Xs are kind of looking at it and saying, "At what point on the ladder am I happy? And at what point do I balance that with my other interests in my life in general?"
Erin:
And so I think that making sure that whoever you're coming up behind kind of knows you may have a stopping point, not with the firm, but just say, "Kind of I like what I do right now." I know there's more money out there, but I think for the millennials and the Gen Xs, especially the ones that came up in the downturn, I graduated from a high school in 2007 right as everything was crashing and I was lucky enough to still go through college as the downturn was really going and going strong. And then I was able to actually time it just right when everybody started hiring again, I was getting out of college, so it worked out pretty good for me.
Erin:
But having grown up in that downturn, I think a lot of younger millennials, which I'm part of the younger half of the millennial or the older part of the Gen Xs, money is not the motivator that it used to be. And I think a lot of us are looking at, "What can I be comfortable with? Even if my dad was a VP or high up in industry, what's going to make me happy and provide me the opportunity to have my other interests outside work?" And so I see Cindy's dedication and a lot of boomers, dedication, life dedication to the organizations that they've built and grown.
Erin:
And it's just respectful that everybody kind of knows where you're going for and so that they don't think they're going to be turning the keys over to the kingdom to you come 20 years later and they're ready to retire and your next millennial is kind of like, "Yeah, I'm good. I don't want to invest everything I have into buying you out and things like that." So the communication of where everybody sees themselves in 20 years is just as important as the communication about the client at that particular time and what's on your work schedule that day.
Doug:
That's a great point. So Cindy, do you see that? Do you try to embrace the different motivations that folks might have? Somebody like Erin, will put in everything they have while they're there, but they may not have those aspirational longterm career goals that are the same as a boomer generation.
Cindy:
Right. I think you're absolutely right, both Erin and Doug. I've been in the same, here I am, I've been in the same career, technically the same firm for 45 years. I don't think we're going to see that. I mean, we're just not going to see that. I think that overall, I think that an employer has to embrace the different visions. And I think if they do that and they're able to work together with the employees and the employees work together and build a team, that's what we need to do.
Cindy:
I don't even know if I should say this, but we do have fun Fridays during tax season and it's kind of cool because it's not only all the millennials that are there, we have some of us that go there too because it's time to unwind, hear what's going on, what are some of the things that they want to, they see that we could improve on? And those with the team concept is where we want to see what they need, or what are we doing? What am I saying and doing that is not what's acceptable to them? You can hear undertones sometimes, but it's like, "Oh Cindy's coming again."
Doug:
I doubt that. Now, come on, Cindy.
Cindy:
But it is hard because you want them to learn and embrace and really thrive on the challenges that the accounting world offers it. It's just a fun career. I think that if we can just give that vision, and be accepting of what their differences are, the work life balance but also have them respect the fact that the job has to get done.
Doug:
Right. I think that's an awesome perspective. I know and I kind of bridge both generations because I myself am a Gen X, so when I started, you just did as you were told and you listened and if you didn't, you felt like, "Oh my gosh, you're going to be in trouble." I felt like we lost something because of that. I never questioned or challenged as much as I probably thought I should have because I had these questions in my mind. But you're intimidated or afraid to ask them. And I think that's one of the best things about the younger generational folks that we see. I mean, I have daughters in their '20s, and it's the same thing. They constantly are asking and challenging and I think that's a wonderful thing to have within a business and a firm like ours and we encourage that with the NextGen Group and things like that, that we do that. Do you feel that's embraced in the workplace, Erin, where you're willing to challenge and do those types of things?
Erin:
Oh yeah. You ask my partner in my office, am I willing to challenge things? Absolutely. I'm just going to say that I don't want to ever say the older generation, that is the more experienced generation, the leadership generation needs to just kind of be aware that we're not there to make trouble. Half of our questions and we're asking why, so we understand and so we can better fulfill it. But if nothing changed, we'd still be doing everything by pen and pencil and sending it out to be printed and things like that. But I don't know if it's us questioning it, I think everybody always had these questions and now millennials feel entitled to ask those questions.
Doug:
I don't know if it's entitled, you're just not afraid.
Erin:
No, we're entitled. We feel like we're entitled to answer that. I don't know. I don't think it's a afraid or not, I think we feel we're entitled to help with these decisions and make these decisions and know why things are the way they are. And if you can't respect us enough to tell us why, we're not going to stick around. And so it isn't an entitlement. I think. I know a lot of millennials get branded and they don't like to be called entitled, but we feel entitled to know what's going on. We feel entitled that the organization that we may work for, for the next 20 or 30 years are making decisions that we approve of because we're going to be the ones paying the Piper in 10, to 20, to 30 years. And so we're entitled-
Doug:
To know.
Erin:
To know. To know why are you making this decision? That's not the decision I would make. So persuade me, tell me why. So that when crap hits the fan here in 20 years and you're long retired on a beach in Mexico with a margarita in your hand, and I'm dealing with why we're behind our competitors because we didn't embrace a new technology, was it worth it?
Doug:
Excellent. Great point.
Erin:
And so I think we're just taking the bulls by the horn and making sure that if we do stay somewhere for 20 or 30 years, there's ownership in it. We want ownership in it.
Doug:
Yeah. Do you see that, Cindy? I mean, provide that explanation of thought and share that thought process?
Cindy:
Right. And I think a strong leadership in any organization is going to respect differences and they're going to be able to, if they truly want to know if that generation really wants to know the millennials about something, I think it's the way the organization creates their vision and goals and their mission. And they're going to take those comments. They're going to take those constructive thoughts and hopefully implement something within their mission or their vision so that they can have the continuity. These people will stay for 20, 25, 35 years, just like the generations before them. So I think it is a matter of listening, for all generations to do that. Because there are times that I can talk to someone that is in the millennial generation and they're just not listening. I can tell. They're just not.
Cindy:
But then again, there are others that are just very attuned. They want to make a difference as much as I want to make a difference and leave a legacy behind. So I think communication is key between all generations.
Doug:
Yeah. And I think that phrase you just said, wanting to make a difference, that's certainly something that we see with the millennial generation. They want to make a difference. But to your point, Erin, I think everybody wants to know why. Why should I try to make a difference here? Persuade me. I think from a leadership perspective, those are great points that we've got to embrace all of that together. So I applaud both of you for being willing to listen to each other because there's a lot of folks out there, as you so aptly said, just don't want to listen. And I think that's the key. I look at the relationship that you now have and the collaboration and how much better it serves our firm and the clients, and I think that's just a wonderful thing-
Erin:
I think it actually goes beyond listening and it actually goes to repeating. Not repeating what Cindy does, but Cindy's going to tell me, she's going to tell me, "Erin, I need you to go to the store and pick up these three items." I'm going to say, "Okay, Cindy, I'm going to go on Amazon and I'm going to order these three items and have them delivered to-"
Cindy:
By Amazon Prime.
Erin:
"By Amazon Prime, and I'm going to have them delivered to the office tomorrow." That gives her the opportunity to one, not be surprised that I've taken what she's told me, I've heard something, I've changed something and going to do something different. It gives her the opportunity that if there was a particular reason why I needed to do something, so there's a particular reason that I needed to go to the Buehler's in Medina to pick that up, it then gives her that opportunity to help me prevent embarrassment or reduce missed time.
Erin:
Maybe the Buehler's in Medina, if there was a client, maybe we've got a handshake agreement that we go and get all of our Friday food from them and that tells me one, something new about a client, tells me now I'm going to be able to meet Cindy's expectations, and two or three, Cindy's now going to be able to trust that when she tells me to do something, I'm not only listening, I'm going to tell her I'm going to do that and this is how I'm going to do it and make sure she's okay with it. And that translates into work across the board.
Erin:
That is something I recommend to all of our interns and all of our new staff is when anybody asks you to do something, regurgitate it and tell them back exactly what you're going to deliver to them because that's going to build trust. Not only does the communication work a lot better, but it builds the trust between the manager and the employee that the manager believes the employee is listening to them, has his or her own thoughts and then is able to make a decision and say, "You've asked me to do this, I think I can do it better so I'm going to do it this way. Is that okay?" And so it'll let Cindy know I have a skill set she might not have known about and it lets her know I'm listening and then she knows what to expect. And I think that intergenerational wise, the repeating back is what is so often missed.
Doug:
Yeah, that is awesome. That's a great-
Cindy:
But delivery too.
Erin:
Delivery too. You have to deliver it. Once I tell her I'm ordering three things from Amazon, it actually has to be three things from Amazon the next day.
Doug:
That's awesome. That's great advice. Great tidbit. Erin, and Cindy, really appreciate you being on and it's been super informative and I think just a wonderful life lesson for all of us. So really appreciate.
Erin:
I recommend everybody, go out and find a Cindy in their life.
Doug:
There you go. And an Erin too.
Cindy:
Thank you. And yes, that too.
Doug:
If you want more business tips and insight or to hear previous episodes of unsuitable, visit our podcast page at www.reacpa.com/podcast. And while you're there, sign up for our weekly podcast newsletter for exclusive content and show notes. Thanks for listening to this week's show. Be sure to subscribe to unsuitable on Apple podcasts or wherever you're listening to us right now, including YouTube. I'm Doug Houser. Join us next week for another unsuitable interview from an industry professional.
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The views expressed on unsuitable on Rea Radio are our own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Rea & Associates. The podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and is not intended to replace the professional advice you would receive elsewhere. Consult with a trusted advisor about your unique situation so they can expertly guide you to the best solution for your specific circumstance.
