Doug Houser:
From Rea & Associates studio, this is unsuitable, a management financial services podcast for entrepreneurs, tenured business leaders, and others who are ready to look beyond the suit and tie culture for meaningful, measurable results. I'm Doug Houser. When we look back in history, every decade is defined by unique trends, music, and fashion choices. It kind of makes you wonder how this new decade, the roaring 20s 2.0, will be defined. But regardless of your personal feelings about bell-bottoms or scrunchies, one thing is certain, with every new decade, comes progress in one form or another. Today's guest is hoping to see continued progress in the area of safety in the workplace. As the president of Safex, a family-owned business, health and safety organization located in central Ohio, Dianne Grote Adams has noticed a promising trend with regard to the importance of environmental safety, health, and sustainability programs.
On this episode of unsuitable, we're going to talk about why these programs matter, and how shifting your focus on health and safety can improve your business's bottom line. Welcome to unsuitable, Dianne.
Dianne Grote Adams:
Thanks. Glad to be here.
Doug:
So awesome to have you. I've been really wanting to have you on as a guest for some time, so I appreciate you accepting our invitation. I know obviously this is a passion for you, safety and industrial hygiene, so talk to us a little bit about how those are investments, and folks, business owners out there should think of those as investments and not costs.
Dianne:
Glad to. And you're right, it is a passion of mine. They often are looked at as the overhead expense. I either need to put machine guarding in or I need to do training, I need to pull people off the line in order to do that. But what people often don't realize is that the investment that you're making is going to give you a good return. And whether that's a reduction in worker compensation costs or even an improvement in employee morale, OSHA estimates you get four to six dollars back for every dollar you invest.
Doug:
Wow. That's a heck of a return.
Dianne:
It's pretty darn good.
Doug:
So, yeah. So how did you get involved in this business, in this segment? I know your background a little bit, but I'm sure most of our audience may not, so it's not something you see every day, right?
Dianne:
It isn't. Like many people, when I got out of college, I had a slight career diversion. And I was looking for a job and the state was hiring science majors and I was trained as an industrial hygienist. And the industrial hygiene piece of that is the chemical exposure side, so preventing employees from being exposed to welding fumes or working in acid [bows 00:00:03:10]. So I was trained by the State of Ohio to become an industrial hygienist, fell in love with it, didn't even know it was a career until then, and went back and did some more schooling in that regard, and I've done it ever since.
Doug:
Wow. That's awesome. And then, some years later, obviously went out on your own, founded your own business.
Dianne:
I did. Spent some time in industry and service industries to learn the ropes and get more experience and looked around central Ohio and realized there was an opportunity to service more than just the people I was working for. And that's kind of what started.
Doug:
Yeah, that's fantastic. So when we think of safety and industrial hygiene, a lot of times, people tend to focus on maybe a heavy manufacturer or a construction company, construction site. Those are the obvious ones. Where else does this come into play, that folks might not be thinking of?
Dianne:
Sure. You're right, those are obvious ones. But even universities.
Doug:
Oh, interesting.
Dianne:
If you think about someone that has a dental school, those employees are exposed to risks as part of learning to be a dentist, and so there are some requirements in addition, some hazards that need to be controlled. So just about every employer has some risk, it's just a matter of the quantity of risks or what the outcomes might be. Whether it's a big deal or not.
Doug:
Okay. So from your perspective, say I'm a construction company or even a light manufacturer here in, say, central Ohio, do you initially go in and do some type of assessment for them to identify risks? How does the process sort of start?
Dianne:
Sure. That's the ideal world. Wouldn't we all want to come in and help our friends and clients, and customers know the extent of what they need to do and where they stand?
Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dianne:
So that'd be the perfect world, but in many cases, our customers have a really specific need that they might initiate in a conversation around... Maybe somebody got hurt, maybe they had a OSHA investigation, maybe they had a spill and they weren't prepared for responding to that. And that's usually there's a triggering event that brings us to start that relationship.
Doug:
It brings you to the table, so to speak.
Dianne:
That's right.
Doug:
Yeah. Yeah. So, then when you go in, do you try to provide that assessment of overall risk in their business and try to... Do you put together a program then to help them mitigate that risk going forward?
Dianne:
Sure. And it varies from client to client. Usually, if there's a triggering event, we're going to help them take care of that event at that time. And then, hopefully, the conversation continues and we can start talking about, if they're proactive, what can we help them put in place so that they don't have another triggering event that brings more crisis to the management team. So it really is about where they are on their journey towards the culture of safety. Not everyone's there yet, so it kind of depends on what the need is.
Doug:
Speaking of culture, it makes me think of the successful companies that we've all been around. You very much notice that there is this kind of overriding culture that everybody sort of buys into. Do you see that from the safety perspective as well? You know, when you walk in the door at a place, how they kind of think about those things?
Dianne:
Yeah, it's pretty obvious. I was in a facility a couple months ago and I was standing, having a conversation with someone about what was going on, and one of the employees came over to me and said, "This is a really busy area of the plant. If you guys want to talk, I would just suggest you move over here and talk."
Doug:
Wow.
Dianne:
That's a culture of safety, right?
Doug:
Yeah.
Dianne:
He didn't know who I was, but he didn't hesitate because he felt that I was at risk. But then there are others that I could have probably stood there all day and nobody would have said anything. So yeah, you get a pretty good first impression.
Doug:
That's very interesting. Now, when you talk to business owners, how do you sort of communicate the return on investment that they're going to get from comprehensive safety programs?
Dianne:
Sure. It depends, again, who the customer is. If we want to talk construction, some of the construction companies are kept from bidding on jobs, or they might not be able to be used as a subcontractor if their incident rates are too high. So it's, for them, it's an easy conversation, right? It's keeping you from being able to do work that you might really want. Others, you can talk about their worker compensation costs and some, that's a huge cost to them. So if we can help reduce that cost, then they can see that going directly to the bottom line. And if they're further along, then the discussion becomes a little more around employee morale, productivity, quality improvements that come along with a safety program as well.
Doug:
That's awesome. So do you typically try to assign some value to what a client will potentially see in terms of gain? Or is it more of like, "Hey, let's worry about the process and procedures, and the rest will sort of take care of itself."
Dianne:
We don't try to assign a value. I'd love to think it was that easy or we had a formula for that, but no, it's usually about the relationship and what it is that we're trying to accomplish, and then how do we measure that internally for you. So they may be measuring worker comp costs, but they also might be measuring employee satisfaction.
Doug:
Okay.
Dianne:
So it varies.
Doug:
Now, in today's world with technology, we have, obviously, drones on the job site. A lot of my construction clients are using drones or wearables and things like that to improve efficiency. How does all that play into the safety world as well?
Dianne:
That's a great question. I think twofold. One, they can be used for safety advantages. Drones could be used to go into dangerous places so that employees don't have to go there. But we're also finding a lot of that technology is becoming a real distraction.
Doug:
Oh, interesting.
Dianne:
So we talk about distracted driving a lot. Really, distracted behaviors are a bigger problem on the workforce.
Doug:
No kidding.
Dianne:
Yeah. Whether I'm using my iPad to log an inspection, and I'm walking and looking at my iPad. So it's supposed to be helping me, but we've introduced, unfortunately, distractions and more risks to employees as we implement technology.
Doug:
Wow. So in that case, it's not even as if somebody's on their phone doing something personal, they're actually doing what they're-
Dianne:
Work.
Doug:
Supposed to be doing, right, but they're very distracted. So that's interesting. So that you've seen those incidents really increase over the last decade or so, I would say.
Dianne:
We have. And I would say it's probably even in the last three to five years.
Doug:
Wow.
Dianne:
As technology has become more commonplace in industry, those behaviors and being distracted are definitely increasing. Companies are going to policies where they have designated stop and answer your phone or check your email, or use your iPad areas because people are doing it while they're walking and causing-
Doug:
Wow. Yeah, that's something I hadn't even thought of, but of course, as you say, it's something we have to be ever more aware of.
Dianne:
Yes.
Doug:
So if I'm a business owner and I want to think about not only the tangible gains, as you said, from either efficiency or workers comp costs, those kinds of things, what other types of intangible gains do you see, in the workplace, through embracing of these programs?
Dianne:
There's a lot of emphasis now on, as culture has changed, to does the employer care about me as a person and as an employee. So when you start talking to companies that are getting the best place to work awards, most of them have a strong safety program as well because it goes naturally with benefits and my respect with my supervisor, it's all a part of that.
Doug:
Okay. So the organization ultimately has to take pride in this part of their business.
Dianne:
Absolutely.
Doug:
Yeah. Does that come from the top-down or do you see that more pushed from bottom-up? That the workforce says, "Hey, we need these things. We want these things." How do you see that being successful implemented?
Dianne:
I think they both work, but if you don't have top management support, it's not going to work long-term. But the initiator could be in a number of ways and that kind of goes back to the culture of the company. If I'm a top-down kind of business, then that's probably where it's going to start. If we're a more team-based, flat organization, then someone on one of the teams is probably going to bring the subject up and start working on it. But it definitely takes management commitment or it won't happen long-term.
Doug:
Yeah. That's interesting. Now, talk about your experience. Have you seen in your... Over the years, have you seen companies do a 180 that were maybe, gosh, had maybe the worst practices out there that are among them, that you've seen, and had turned that culture around? Is that possible?
Dianne:
It is possible.
Doug:
Okay. So you've seen success stories like that.
Dianne:
Oh yeah. And when I go into a company and the management team is passionate about safety, I ask the question, "How'd you get passionate?" The unfortunate thing is usually somebody on that team experienced a really negative experience in one of their previous employers. Somebody was seriously injured or potentially killed. But they take that passion with them and then they can turn an organization. Unfortunately, we've got to figure out how to get that passion without that significant event, but they do it. There's some local steel mills that are an amazing place to work now.
Doug:
Wow.
Dianne:
Completely different culture than they were 30 years ago.
Doug:
No kidding. Well, that's great.
Dianne:
It is.
Doug:
And likewise, I mean, what, and without naming names, obviously, what are some of the common areas that you see, that can be quickly addressed and improved? Say I'm a construction contractor or light manufacturer, what are some basics that you see in terms of industrial safety and hygiene?
Dianne:
It really is about a good discussion and an understanding that, even though there might be a... What is perceived to be a quicker, easier way to get that done, if you follow the procedure that's the safer way to get that done, in the long run, we all benefit. And that's the hardest part, but also the quickest turnaround you can get is stop taking the shortcuts that put people at risk.
Doug:
Yeah. Okay. So, now, you have, obviously, a team of folks at your company with various kind of backgrounds and specializations. Maybe talk a little bit about what some of those areas are and how you or they can help a potential client.
Dianne:
Okay. We do have an interesting variety of people. So, obviously, I come from the industrial hygiene background, so we have a fair number of industrial hygienists. So we are the ones that go out and quote, unquote hang the pumps on employees and figure out what they're being exposed to from an inhalation standpoint or even noise. That's a big risk that's often underestimated. And then we have safety professionals who are going to look at the physical aspects of the job or the procedures when you're working around machinery. We have environmental folks so that if you might spill something or you might exhaust something out of your building that we need to be worried about from an air permitting standpoint. And recently added some sustainability staff. So as safety and environmental are expanding, how can we recycle? How can we be sustainable? It's becoming a part of that as well, so.
Doug:
Interesting. Now, I've seen some things in the news lately about air quality in, for example, just in an office building like this one. Is there anything of substance to that or is it misinformation?
Dianne:
No, it can be real. Really, it comes back to construction of the building, whether maintenance is done to make sure that there isn't ongoing moisture intrusion, and if there's adequate fresh air being brought into the building. So it comes back to the cost of maintenance and whether the building owner is maintaining it properly. And then we do a lot of renovations, if you have noticed, in buildings and sometimes we don't adjust the ventilation for the number of people that are now in the building.
Doug:
Ah, interesting. So from a testing and monitoring perspective, what's maybe best practice, say even an office building like this one?
Dianne:
You can certainly look at measuring some of the air contaminants and see if that leads you to a problem. The easiest thing to measure, honestly, is carbon dioxide over the course of the day. And as we all breathe and exhale, we're all exhaling carbon dioxide, and if there's inadequate fresh air being brought into the building, that CO2 level's going to climb over the course of the day.
Doug:
Wow.
Dianne:
And that can just be an indication that we need more fresh air. And it's not the CO2 that people will be complaining about, it's lots of other low concentrations of chemicals that are starting to creep up as that CO2 creeps up.
Doug:
Wow. Fascinating. Kind of scary though. I'm glad you're passionate about this though because somebody needs to be.
Dianne:
It sounds scary, but in most cases it's an easy fix.
Doug:
Yeah. But still in today's world, like we saw with the Grove City hospital that was just completed, I mean, they had unfortunate cases of Legionnaires' there, which may or may not have been due to construction issues, who knows. I mean, so even in a modern facility like that, that's newly constructed, you can still have issues, right?
Dianne:
Sure, you can. I mean, there's lots of things and I don't know the specifics on the background of that, but that specifically, that's about controlling and making sure you don't have any stagnant water in water lines. And one thing I think everyone doesn't realize about Legionnaires' disease, typically it's those that are already compromised, that are not able to fight that bacteria. Because it's common in water, you can go take a water sample anywhere and you're going to find it.
Doug:
Right. But in a hospital where folks maybe already are weaker.
Dianne:
Right. It becomes a bigger risk. Absolutely.
Doug:
Yeah.
Dianne:
Right.
Doug:
Wow. That's fascinating. Talk about this trend among investors reviewing environmental safety, health, and sustainability programs. I mean, we're certainly seeing that, again, more and more in the news and folks are paying attention to that. Can you give some background?
Dianne:
Kind of exciting for me. I always joke that people are willing to invest in their attorneys and their CPAs, and they don't ask about the cost and then they call a-
Doug:
Now, they ask us about the cost, Dianne. Come on now. We still get that question.
Dianne:
Yeah, I know. I know you do, but-
Doug:
I'm kidding.
Dianne:
It seems to be less of an emphasis than like safety. They're like, "Oh, it costs that much?" And you're like, "Oh, come on." So investors actually being in tune, it's pretty exciting for our perspective.
Doug:
Absolutely.
Dianne:
And there are a number of things I've read that are indicating, because, in part, the younger generations are more inclined to want to invest in companies that are making a difference, that are not degrading the environment or have sustainable processes, that I think that's driving it somewhat. And then there are some markets that that's the focus. They want to invest in companies that have strong safety cultures, that are environmentally sound and have sustainable practices. So it's kind of fun to see that being start, come to the forefront and be a topic of conversation.
Doug:
Yeah, I agree with you. In fact, my oldest daughter's training to be a civil and environmental engineer, and it's top of mind for her and her peers, is to deal with companies that are thinking along those lines and make sure that that's a part of the equation. And in fact, it makes me think that companies that are doing those things, that can be a part of the package that they use to attract new and young employees.
Dianne:
I'm seeing a lot of that. Employees want to work for a company that they believe in their mission. It's not just a paycheck, they want to feel good about where they work as well. So I do think that's becoming more and more popular.
Doug:
Yeah, it's kind of that sense of attachment or belonging, is it? It's all part of that same equation. So that's very cool stuff. If there are a couple of key takeaways, if I'm a business owner, your typical mid-market business owner, the client that you deal with and we deal with, what are the primary things that I should think about in terms of safety and industrial hygiene?
Dianne:
I think it's like any other business aspect. You have a plan on how do you manage your finances. You have a plan on how do you reduce your costs continually, right? You're always looking at how are your labor costs going and how do you manage that. Safety's the same thing. It's just they need to start up front and how are we going to manage environmental safety and health here, and what does that look like for us? How does it fit with the rest of the business?
Doug:
Okay. So when I'm thinking about doing my budget for the next year, budgeting my next... Bidding on the next job or a project, or taking on a new relationship, and think about improving margin, the safety and industrial hygiene should be a part of that.
Dianne:
Yes. Absolutely. It makes for success in the long run.
Doug:
And again, as you said, so the investment is there in terms of the payoff. Obviously it can make you more efficient, more productive, and I don't [crosstalk 00:21:01].
Dianne:
We invest in so many areas, right? I mean, you have head count for human resources, you have head count for training and development because we recognize those things contribute to an effective, successful business. Yes, IH is the same thing, it's just we've been a little slower to market, if you will, to recognize that those are equally as important pieces to a well-rounded business.
Doug:
Well, and I think, like anything in today's environment, it's best to involve experts who can bring the best practices to the table. You can and say, "Okay, help me implement these. I want to take everybody else's best ideas and implement those within my business." And that's what you can help them do.
Dianne:
We can. We can lay out a plan and they can implement if they want, but we can help them lay out that plan and share a lot of information.
Doug:
That's very cool. So it's great stuff. I know you're obviously very passionate about it and that's wonderful to see. We love folks that are passionate about their industry and their business. And the best part about it is you help businesses succeed and improve what they're doing. So I think that's... I applaud you for that.
Dianne:
Well, thank you. It's a pleasure, it really is. When you have a success story, it just makes your week.
Doug:
Yeah, that is awesome. Well, thank you, Dianne. Great to have you here. And if you want more business tips and insight, or to hear previous episodes of unsuitable, visit our podcast page at www.reacpa.com/podcast. Thanks for listening to this week's show. You can subscribe to unsuitable on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts, including YouTube. I'm Doug Houser. Join us next week for another unsuitable interview from an industry professional.
Disclaimer:
The views expressed on unsuitable on Rea Radio are our own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Rea & Associates. The podcast is for informational and educational purposes only, and is not intended to replace the professional advice you would receive elsewhere. Consult with a trusted advisor about your unique situation so they can expertly guide you to the best solution for your specific circumstance.
