Doug Houser:
From Rea & Associates, remote, Newark, Ohio studio. This is, unsuitable, a management and financial services podcast for entrepreneurs, tenured business leaders and others who are ready to look beyond the suit-and-tie culture or meaningful measurable results.
I'm Doug Houser. On this weekly podcast thought leaders and business professionals break down complicated and mundane topics and give you the tips and insight you actually need to grow as a leader and help your organization thrive. If you haven't already, hit the subscribe button, so you don't miss future episodes. And if you want access to even more information, show notes, and exclusive content, please visit our website at www.raecpa.com/podcast, and sign up for updates. It's April nine as we're recording today's episode. And once again we've got another Zoom recording for you, but that's more than, okay. We are both committed to flattening the curve and providing you with valuable business insight and expertise.
On this episode of unsuitable, we're going to analyze the foreign language of business, which is particularly relevant as there continues to be a lot of technical speak occurring in the areas of tax and accounting. And there is no shortage of business owners who are trying to make sense of this current economic environment in an effort to sustain and manage their businesses. Today's guest is going to help us out. Peter Margaritis, also known as The Accidental Accountant, is the author of Improv Is No Joke, and, Taking The Numb Out Of Numbers, host of the Change, Your Mindset podcast, and the Change, Your Mindset speaking demonstration on C-Suite radio, which I love and author of a ton of other great content at petermargaritis.com. Today, he's going to explain how those of us who are used to communicating in text-speak can be more effective to our clients and others, we are trying to reach. Welcome to unsuitable, Peter.
Peter Margaritis:
Thank you for having me. I'm excited about this.
Doug:
Good. I'm so glad you could join us today, remotely, and appreciate you doing so. I always prefer obviously, me in the room with, with a guest, but we'll make do. You're a veteran, so you certainly understand that as well. Right?
Peter:
Exactly.
Doug:
So this topic is near and dear to my heart because I've had sort of a roundabout career myself having spent time, not only in public accounting but in corporate banking and as a private industry CFO. And its always frustrated me to no end that when you get in front of "experts", you hear a lot of acronyms and business speak and tech speak. So talk to me a little bit about how you got passionate about this topic and where you started.
Peter:
Well, I didn't get into the accounting profession until I was 30 years old. I went to university. I'm a Greek American, and I really should be in a restaurant. And I was, for a good portion, from 12 years old through college and even after college. And then I became a corporate banker in Florida Marcia Place. And then I migrated up to Case Western to earn my masters of accountancy and then started my public accounting with PW at that time.
Doug:
Okay.
Peter:
I'd learned the language of accounting. And it is a foreign language. Did you learn the language of accounting at an eight-hour seminar?
Doug:
No, absolutely not.
Peter:
We had to invest a lot of time in, to understand that language, but I was seeing this when trying to communicate because I used to be that guy with a client and they're looking at me like, "Oh".
Doug:
Right.
Peter:
It wasn't until my girlfriend at the time, fiancé, we get together and she'll, "So how was your day?" And I would tell her... She was, "Quit talking Chinese to me, I have no idea what you said." And I just laughed at her. When somebody says it 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 times, you know what, I do speak a foreign language.
Doug:
Right?
Peter:
So I have to become a better translator of that language because the information that we're trying to share with our clients and clients being external clients, as well as our internal clients, we want them to act on it.
Doug:
Absolutely.
Peter:
And too many of our clients are going, "Oh, please. I'd rather watch grass grow." You're providing this data, information, but there's no story there.
Doug:
Right.
Peter:
And we need to create a story because I think you would agree with these numbers by themselves, don't move on their own.
Doug:
Right. Absolutely.
Peter:
People make numbers move. So when something increases or decreases by a percentage that catches us off guard, find the story. Don't just repeat, "Well, we fell by 35% and our gross margins have deteriorated and blah, blah, blah." Why does it look like...?
Doug:
Yeah, I think that's certainly sage advice. And for me, it sort of clicked as I started spending more and more time in front of clients. And for me particularly, being a part of the construction segment, the thing I love about contractors in general, they're always fairly transparent and straightforward. So I vividly remember this back in the day, going out and probably talking in circles around the topic that needed to be addressed. And finally, he stopped me and he said, "What in the hell are you trying to tell me?" You realize you're using all this corporate accounting speak or corporate finance speak and not getting to the point that they can understand. So, your sort of like Google translates for accountants. Is that it?
Peter:
Thank you. I'm going to use that moving forward. I like it. I try to be. I used to be that guy. I'll give you an example. I was doing an A&A update for the Arizona Society of CPAs back in 2014. And at the time consolidations and VAs was going through another iteration, another 1000 pages or whatever, and the meeting planner wanted me to address it. The night before I'm looking at my presentation, looking at my slides, oh my god, they're just words. There's nothing else there. So I said, "Think about it, what are they really trying to do?" Well, they're trying to take something from over here and put it over here, but over here doesn't want it. They're trying to move something. So I came up with this idea.
Doug:
Right?
Peter:
So when I put the title slide up, Consolidation VA's, I saw everybody, the audience does what I expected, reach for their phones, and begin to do the conference prayer.
Doug:
I love that. Yes.
Peter:
So I said, "Wait, I've been here a couple of times. Let me just do just some quick questions for the audience." I said, "Play with me here." I said, "There are about 200 CPAs in the audience." I said, "How many of you are married? Raise your hands." They all raise their hands. "How many of you have a mother-in-law?" Their hands stayed up? I said, "I want you to think of your mother-in-law as a variable interest entity, and your spouse wants their mother to move into your house. Let me rephrase that your spouse wants them to consolidate onto your balance sheet. And that's the last thing you want to do. And by the way, your mother has six children. We'll call them agents. You would rather, your mother spend two months out of the year with each one of them. So no one has control and we don't have to consolidate."
Doug:
There you go. There's an easy way to think about it, right?
Peter:
It went from the conference there to leaning forward, to laughter going, and for those who were in the audience... I know I have a really cool last name, but when people have met me over the years, I was at that... "You're the mother-in-law guy?"
Doug:
I love it.
Peter:
I won. That's the best compliment I could get. And it's how do we take the complexity and break it down into something that's relatable to our audience?
Doug:
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I think that because if you don't communicate clearly when you're doing that as you said, then the execution falls apart. So oftentimes you get in the room with certain folks and they always want to sound like the smartest person in the room. And then instead they make it so nobody can relate to them.
Peter:
Right. Exactly.
Doug:
That's no good for anybody. Talk to me about some of the biggest challenges you have or that you see with accountants as a whole, in terms of trying to bridge that gap? Because so many of us are thought to think very technically, and not really work on those communication skills. So what's the biggest hurdle you see with CPAs?
Peter:
I see a lot trying to deal with clients is, it's about me, not about them. And it's that mindset should change to me, it's about my audience and not so much about me. I don't have time to put this presentation together. That's about you. That's not about the audience. And when I do a workshop on this, I'll ask the audience, "Have you ever taken an eight hour CPA class that you were just bored to death with? That you didn't get anything done and you got your hours, but you walked out with nothing between your ears new? Remember how you felt? Remember that the next time you do a presentation and put yourself back in that chair and make that person excited to be in that chair."
Doug:
Yeah.
Peter:
Talking about the audience, you said construction. So I speak accounting. I speak general accounting. I don't speak very much about construction accounting. And I did a four-hour pre-conference workshop for the Construction Finance Management Association last year, and I spent probably 18 hours with one of the instructional designers, learning construction accounting lingo, so I could relate to the audience. But if I would have just come in with my general accounting knowledge and didn't put it into the context that they would understand, their walking out with still nothing.
Doug:
Right.
Peter:
So always think about your audience first. I always think about, what do they understand the language of accounting? Two, if they do, are they specialized in some aspect of accounting? And if they don't then in all cases, how could you boil it down to something simple? But when you work with those folks, like in sales and HR, you really have to drop the accounting speak because that's you becoming an anesthesiologist at that point.
Doug:
Right? At least you don't scribble on the page, right?
Peter:
Yeah, exactly.
Doug:
So you like me spent some time in corporate banking as well. So what did you notice about the difference, say in banking or finance versus accountants and how they try to communicate? Do you notice a lot of the same issues or were they different?
Peter:
They were different. Back in the day in Florida in the mid-eighties, the loan officer was required to send information through the credit analyst and then analyze it together and then go out and work with the customer. But the loan officer's more of a salesperson.
Doug:
Gotcha.
Peter:
But they could understand and be able to present and communicate with their customers. That's where I see the big difference because they had the mindset of veteran sales. They're trying to drive business. And then I thought, well, you know what, aren't we all in sales?
Doug:
Right.
Peter:
And it's not a bad word. It's actually the more that we accept the fact that the way we communicate, the way we make people feel like part of sales, the more that we can communicate effectively to that audience, to that client or to that prospect, the likelihood that we'll be able to bring him into the farm and become a client versus if you're a client or your prospect is confusing, they're out looking for another accounting firm.
Doug:
Right. Absolutely true. I think you bring up a great point. My mentor long ago taught me this right away. He said, "Doug, keep in mind. You're in sales every day." And I said, "What do you mean? I don't have revenue goals." I was just starting out. He said, "Look, you're either selling internally or you're selling externally or you're promoting your company or your firm's brand by how you present yourself and who you are. So, that is all selling." And that kind of really clicked for me. But again, it goes back to communication. If you can't communicate it well, then somebody is going to look at you like you have three heads.
Peter:
Right. And to that point of you asking that how can CPAs come better communicators is one, think outside of 40 hours and invest in yourself to become a better communicator. I look at 40 hours and public accounting practices that are an area to work on your technical knowledge. Some also within the leadership skills, the people skills, but the learning doesn't stop at 40. You cannot continue to invest, especially if it's something brand new that you're trying to become better at because you know that you're going to fail, you're going to hit walls, but you've got to keep getting past it until you get to proficiency just as we did learning, the art of accounting.
Doug:
Absolutely. Yeah. So different. It can change on a dime too. I mean, look at us today, here we are remote. Right?
Peter:
Right.
Doug:
So we have Zoom meetings. Everybody's doing this during the midst of the COVID-19 crisis. So that image can be very different. All of a sudden we're seeing each other's home offices, and all this personal space. So, that becomes a part of it too. Right? How do you navigate all of these things, if you're a typical CPA or something like that?
Peter:
I'm working right now with an accountant, a client here locally, and we were talking about this and he goes, "I'm working. I'm trying to get used to this. My dog might bark. My kids might come into the room." And I went "That's fine. We're all been thrust into this." And it's not our offices. We have other things. And also our family members, I got two FTEs upstairs, a 19-year-old son and my wife. I need to put my 19-year-old son on warning or performance review. And every time I delegate something to my wife, she's got this other business she's trying to work on and taking up my internet speed. But that's the world that we live in right now. So if you get maybe to go into a meeting, you might just say, you know what, my dog, my bark, somebody might walk in, just ignore it. And I'm trying to keep it as quiet as possible, but right now it's a little tough and just kind of accept that will happen and just move forward.
Doug:
Yeah. I think more than anything, it's how you react to those things, rather than the fact that they occur. I sort of [inaudible 00:16:11] yourself and react to those things. So talk to me a little bit about the books you've written and what got you passionate about communicating in that way?
Peter:
Well, I've had that question asked to me before as I said, I'm Greek American, so I come from a very gregarious background family. If only to get me to stop talking to let me sit on my hands and, well my first day of Pricewaterhouse, I walked into their office and somebody took all the air out and so when they're selling their recruits on what the firm is, it was like, what happened here? And I just became passionate about, wait a minute, we're doing it. I had to learn public accounting, dealing with clients, and the technical side of it, which that's why I'm The Accidental Accountant.
Doug:
I like the sign. Yes. I see that.
Peter:
My boss at a Fortune 500 company basically told me, "How the heck did you ever become a CPA, because a CPA can get down this detail, get you this far, you're An Accidental Accountant?" And I wore that with honor, because I also said, "When you want something done in this building, who do you ask to get it done?" Because I realized that we have a stereotype, whether we want to believe it or not, but the people outside believe it. There's a stereotype. And you said you were CFO or CF no?
Doug:
A little of both, actually.
Peter:
A little bit of both. And when the accountant within an organization shows up to sales, to HR, to IT, the person there naturally is defensive, especially if they don't know you and you're looking for information, they might not be forthcoming with it. What I realized early on is if I could build relationships within the silos of an organization and they see me as, "Oh, Hey, here comes Pete", versus "Isn't that the accountant guy from finance coming in here asking questions again?" Build that relationship, and they will give you information. You become trustworthy, but you have to extend and start meeting people and accepting who they are and have them understand you. Then you can get all the information in the world. That is what really drove the passion. And I've kept that passion and fire going on for quite a long time.
Doug:
Yeah. And that's quite evident and you can see it in the way you talk about the topic and the industry. And I think that's fantastic to maintain that. So what do you see as we all wonder what the new normal is going to look like here, right? Post-crisis more second to be more telecommuting, probably certainly other things that will be involved. How do you pivot to adapting these ways to communicate and bridge that gap, if you've got to do so remotely? In other words, I've always found it easier, obviously to be sitting across the table or out somewhere with somebody, but boy, this Zoom thing and the remote conference calls and that, that's more challenging.
Peter:
It is more challenging, but you're a lot more comfortable today than you were two weeks ago.
Doug:
True.
Peter:
I do 90% of my podcast through Zoom. So I've gotten pretty proficient with Zoom and I've helped other people become more proficient at it. And we have become more proficient with technology. Prior to this pandemic, the big disruptor was technology. Artificial intelligence will crunch the numbers for us and provide us here. Here's your high-risk areas to look at those. Here is your medium and low risk versus having to go into the bowels of employing-out files and stuff. Even at that point, we needed to become better communicators because we're more of a consulting role versus a bean-counting stereotypical role of accountants. I've said, "If you want to differentiate yourself from everybody else, while the other firms invest time to become better communicators."
Doug:
Absolutely true.
Peter:
Now invest time to become technologically sound in a remote world with the technology we have. And if you have a modem that has only 35 megabytes per second, you've got to upgrade.
Doug:
Right?
Peter:
I see that this is going to continue. When we do get back to somewhat normalcy, a lot of people get accustomed to remote working, and they might actually be even more productive than we ever imagined before.
Doug:
Right. But you still have to be able to... and I can see it with you, as we talked about that passion comes across, that ability to listen and connect with your audience that comes across even on a Zoom call. And I'm sure it would on a conference call too. So I think it's, again, you brought up a great point earlier, be mindful of your audience. Always think of your audience first. That's a great point.
Peter:
And everybody in this world should take an Improv workshop because if everyone in this world took an Improv workshop, it would be a much nicer world. Because at Improv, it teaches us to listen, to be present at the moment. When this all occurred I put in my email signature line, improvise the scene that you are, and not the one you want to be in.
Doug:
That's great advice. I love that.
Peter:
And that helps in this disruptive world even more so now is just focused on the present, just keep focused, and how can I be the best during this period of time? Tomorrow's a whole new day. Don't get too far ahead of yourself.
Doug:
I love that. Yeah. That's great. So one last question, I've got to ask you since you're a veteran podcast host yourself. What's the favorite podcast moment that you've had with any of your guests? Does anything come to mind?
Peter:
Oh, I interviewed a gentleman, his name is Dave Caperton. And Dave is a professional speaker, former English teacher. He used to do stand up, used to be on Sunday 95, just a very funny guy. And I interviewed him in his book, Speaking of Joy, and he is one of the few podcasts I go back and listen to almost regularly because he had such good content. He made me laugh and felt so good. Probably I rate him as my number one guest, and I think that I've got 155 episodes to date.
Doug:
Love that. Yeah. That's awesome. And I agree with you, the ones that are most memorable are the ones that I think back and the conversation just flowed and you know, it doesn't seem like work. You're just getting to know the person and having some fun and learning a little bit at the same time. Right?
Peter:
Right. And the second one I can think of is, and he's a friend of a friend of your firm. You may know the guy, some guy named Gerry Appelstein?
Doug:
Oh yes. Yeah.
Peter:
I interviewed Gerry at his house. He was in a recliner. I was a recliner. I was just sitting there having this conversation and it was a ton of fun.
Doug:
That's awesome. I know his brother, Rick as well. Rick's a great guy also. So it runs in the family.
Peter:
He's a great guy.
Doug:
Well, Peter, good luck with everything. I appreciate you being on. Good luck with the other FTEs in your house as well. I feel the pain there. I've got some adult children that are now home that I didn't expect to be home right now. So dealing with those FTEs myself. I love the new moniker that we have for you that you're the Google translate for CPAs.
Peter:
Yes, I'm the Google translate for CPAs.
Doug:
I love that.
Peter:
Cool.
Doug:
Well, thanks again for being on. And if you want more business tips and insight, or to hear previous episodes of unsuitable, visit our podcast page at www.reacpa.com/podcast. And while you're there, sign up for exclusive content and show notes. Thanks for listening to this week's show. Be sure to subscribe to unsuitable on Apple podcasts or wherever you're listening to us right now, including YouTube. I'm Doug Houser. Join us next week for another unsuitable interview from an industry professional.
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