Doug Houser:
From Rea & Associates studio, this is unsuitable. A management financial services podcast for entrepreneurs, tenured business leaders and others who are ready to look beyond the suit and tie culture for meaningful measurable results. I'm Doug Houser, on this weekly podcast thought leaders and business professionals break down complicated and mundane topics and give you the tips and insight you actually need to grow as a leader while helping your organization grow and thrive. If you haven't already hit the subscribe button. So you don't miss feature episodes. And if you want access to even more information, show notes and exclusive content, visit our website at www.reacpa.com/podcast, and sign up for updates. Identifying when it's time for you to finally retire isn't an easy decision to make. Then when you finally do decide it's time for you to exit the business, you soon realize how difficult it is to actually make the whole retirement thing happen.
There are so many moving pieces and so many factors to take into consideration that it could actually be intimidating to get started. On today's episode, we're going to talk to Bill Ubbing, owner of W. J. Ubbing and Associates about what his transition into retirement has been today and what advice he has for other business owners that may be embarking on their own retirement journey. Welcome to unsuitable Bill.
Bill Ubbing:
Thanks Doug. Good to be here.
Doug:
Appreciate you jumping on. You're now part of the Rea team as you've merged your firm into ours as you transition away into the great retired CPA sunset. So talk a little bit about how you started the process of thinking about is this the right time? What was your thought process maybe a couple of years back?
Bill:
Well, I know for myself, I just kind of knew, and I think that's the way it happens for a lot of people. I think you just get a feeling of when you might want to start getting more time to do other things. I was in public accounting for 45 years, roughly. So I was pretty sure that along with a lot of the County rules changes and tax changes going on recently that maybe it was time to start thinking seriously about it.
Doug:
Well, you don't look like you've been at it for 45 years, so you-
Bill:
I appreciate that.
Doug:
Yeah. I know when I tell people, they're like, "Bill's been at it that long?" But yeah, I imagine so it's sort of that knowing feeling that you just... Gosh, I don't know if I want to invest everything I need to invest in my business. Is it that kind of sense?
Bill:
Yeah. I think that's part of it. And I think when you've been doing anything that long either you... I mean, some people do it into their seventies and eighties because they love it so much. I don't think the County works that way all the time, especially taxes, but yeah, I think you just get a feeling because we have to get continuing education every year. I keep up on all that. So I don't know. I just kind of knew that it was time to start thinking seriously about it.
Doug:
Time to enjoy the grandchildren a little more and go ride that motorcycle, right?
Bill:
Yeah. Ride the motorcycle a little more, except the weather's too hot for me.
Doug:
Yeah, I get it. So-
Bill:
Coincidentally, I mean you called me and we had breakfast that one morning as I remember we had coffee, you just kind of asked me, "So what are you thinking about these days?" Then we got into the conversation.
Doug:
Yeah. And it's funny how that leads to things down the road and it's certainly where we are today. So as you then decided, okay, maybe I'm going to start thinking about this and exploring this. How did you go about thinking about well, who's the right fit? And who's a potential buyer for my business? How did you go about your own evaluation during that process?
Bill:
Well, I think the first thing I did, I started reading a lot, especially as the sale of CPA firms is related. So I just tried to educate myself on how practices are currently valued in today's world, because that changes all the time, depending on what's going on. As far as picking a firm to talk to my practice is very heavily into the construction industry. So that was a prime factor. And I wanted to make sure whoever I merged with would be able to service my clients over the long term in that industry.
And then also as a sole practitioner, I was still doing audit engagements. This is coming out of the larger firm area. So I was doing audits and reviews as well as all the tax work. So I had to have a firm that did audits primarily. So I knew then it was going to be possibly a larger firm than a local practitioner.
Doug:
Yeah.
Bill:
So those were my things that I was looking for in a firm.
Doug:
One of the things I found unique in talking to you, as we went through this process was you are very focused on the culture for your clients and how they would feel sort of after the fact. And I very much applaud you for that. Because a lot of the conversations we have, they may be focused on the culture of the firm perhaps, or the businesses when we have clients, but never as much as you did at least how the clients and customers themselves are impacted. What made you kind of focus on that factor a little bit more?
Bill:
Well, again, I think it's where I was coming from as a sole practitioner and my clientele working with a sole practitioner. I heard a lot through the years that the reason they were using me is because they liked having one individual. They could call on the phone or contact when they had a question or an issue versus having to deal with [inaudible 00:06:24]. So they just liked that one on one relationship with somebody. So I knew the replacement firm was going to have to... It had that same feeling toward my clients basically. As I got to know the people at Rea, I did get that feeling that they do care about the clients, they are like me, they enjoy working with the individual owners and the staff and the clients. So that was something I was looking for too. I know we both wanted this to be a successful transition and I knew my clients had to have that.
Doug:
Did you take any lessons learned over the years from your own clients that you've seen go through, M and A activity or even at your previous large firm? What kind of tidbits did you take from those experiences if any?
Bill:
Mostly just the subject of things. As far as, again, accounting firm selling or emerging and accounting firm to me is very different. And the basics were all still there, but when you're selling manufacturing or a construction company, a lot of different issues come into play. So yeah, I guess subjectively talking to my clients about what their plans were from a succession standpoint, several of my clients are getting to retirement age themselves. So through those conversations. I was finding out that, yeah, I think in another year and I'll look to sell this or shut it down, whatever. And again, I kind of influenced my decision as well. I didn't want to be left in the cold per se.
Doug:
Right. And it's interesting you say that because one of the clients see that we've already transitioned earlier this year. They've already since gone through their own ownership transition.
Bill:
Right.
Doug:
Internally, which you're aware of. But yeah, it's interesting. It seems, we're seeing a lot of that as folks start to think about the future and obviously the economy up until this COVID crisis has had a good run. So it's been a good time to transition.
Bill:
Yeah, I think a lot of the baby boomers, they're reaching retirement age or they've already reached retirement age. So I think I personally, am seeing a lot more of this going on with my clients.
Doug:
Yeah. Now obviously your practice is largely focused on construction. So we're fortunate that client base that we serve obviously as well has fared better than most during this crisis. But I know you're still obviously working with a number of those clients as we undertake this transition. How have you seen folks adapt out there? Do you think this has changed anything from the perspective you've seen with your clients?
Bill:
Well, like you say, construction is a big part of the practice. And overall from talking to my clients, other than some inefficiencies that are now occurring on the job sites for them things have to slow down, they were able to keep on working. So they just kept going and had to develop and follow OSHA standards for the whole COVID-19 issue.
Doug:
Yeah.
Bill:
So most of them that I have talked to, things have gone on as usual, unless they're serving a particular industry that maybe was affected like the hotel industry, maybe. The entertainment industry, things like that. Yeah, those people actually did have to close down their businesses for a while.
Doug:
Yeah, for sure. Well, let's pivot a little bit to discussing, how you've seen clients’ needs change over time. You're a Jack of all trades. It's just very unusual to be able to do all the assurance work, the tax work, some consulting work, et cetera. Have you seen their needs change over recent years? Is that a part of went into your thought process or not really?
Bill:
Yeah, slightly so. I mean, again, as clients age, their priorities change a little bit, they start thinking about not working forever. So yeah, they come to me as I'm sure they come to you and they say, I'm thinking about selling my company or transitioning my company in five or six years. What can you tell me about that?
Doug:
Right.
Bill:
And so yeah, I started hearing that a lot from people and I've helped several clients through selling their companies and for me it's been an educational process as well.
Doug:
Yeah. I think I've been through those as well. And each time I learned something different in terms of what motivates people and what's important to them, whether sometimes it's the tax planning becomes more important other times it just depends. It's kind of the soft issues that are of more importance you see all kinds that's for sure.
Bill:
Yeah. And I think when you're dealing with outside buyers versus inside buyers, it changes the whole aspect of a negotiation process. You have to kind of get some feel for why they want your company and that can also affect your negotiations as far as price is concerned. Like I said, I've been through probably five or six major ones with my clients. That's always an interesting to me process. And how it goes about, you can really kind of play with that a little bit in some circumstances and some not.
Doug:
Right. Yeah, it's interesting. I was talking with Mary Beth Kester earlier today who heads up our evaluation practice and she's as busy as ever dealing with some of those things just as you suggested. I don't know if this COVID thing has accelerated that thought for some people and they're just, "Okay, now I'm really going to get out." Hard to say, but we're definitely in for some permanent changes I would think with all that.
Bill:
Yeah, I remember in 2008, maybe when the construction industry was having some real issues, I had one or two clients just come to the conclusion that they didn't want to mess with it anymore. And they had made good money and build their companies up. And rather than see it start getting picked away at, in those couple of cases, they just decided to shut it down. Not even sell it, just shut it down, do an early retirement, move on.
Doug:
Yeah, wind it down. Yeah. It is interesting. Everybody's different. And there's nothing wrong with that either.
Bill:
No, not at all. Everybody's got different circumstances they are dealing with.
Doug:
Yeah. So at this point, obviously we're approaching the new deadline here of July 15th, this episode will air slightly after that. So this is kind of your last official tax deadline, right?
Bill:
It is.
Doug:
I mean, we still got September and October, but are you going to do a little happy dance, a little celebration?
Bill:
Yeah. Yeah. I didn't get to celebrate in April.
Doug:
Right.
Bill:
Unfortunately, so yeah, July 15th and then one more project after that which we'll do it in late August or something. But yeah, I think about it all the time. No more tax seasons.
Doug:
Yeah.
Bill:
It's a nice thing to think about, although I'm sure you guys will probably need something from me as we get into next year, get you introduced to the clients and how they work.
Doug:
Absolutely. We'll certainly rely on you for that, but at least you won't have to be down in the weeds doing-
Bill:
No, no, no. It's [inaudible 00:13:56] this year, of course, your firm took over my audit clients. So this was one of the first tax seasons in a very long time I haven't worked evenings.
Doug:
Good for you.
Bill:
And then come back home. Yeah. So that was a nice change in itself.
Doug:
I'm sure your wife and your family members appreciate a little extra time.
Bill:
Yeah, they did. It was a nice change.
Doug:
Now, one of the things that we find when folks do transition away is thinking about the future. So what does it look like after the fact so to speak? Have you given much thought to that part of it? Beyond the personal stuff where family time and things like that. I mean, how do you stay or do you want to stay engaged at all professionally? Or is it just like, "Hey, you'll never, you see me again?" Nothing wrong with that either way, by the way. But everybody's got a different attitude I'm always interested to hear.
Bill:
Yeah. I think my attitude right now is just take some time to just enjoy not working, not working as hard anyway. And then it's just kind of wait and see. Wait and see if I started getting bored or antsy a little bit, with our background, there's a lot of different things we can do. It doesn't even have to be in the accounting world.
Doug:
Right.
Bill:
Maybe a client will come back to me with a project they want some help with or something.
Doug:
Yeah.
Bill:
Yeah, right now it's mostly just stop working and relax a little bit. And then if I do get bored, I'm sure I'll be out there.
Doug:
Yeah.
Bill:
Try to find something to keep me engaged.
Doug:
Well, I know we'd certainly have some things we'd love to get your assistance on maybe next year or something, but yeah, no tax deadlines, none of that stuff.
Bill:
Yeah, none of that hard stuff.
Doug:
I'm with you on all that. So that's awesome. So one of the other things you mentioned was find a buyer for you who focused on kind of that service and responding to the client and that client service aspect. How did you kind of evaluate that when you went through the process? Was it a feel thing, or did you talk to other folks outside to get other opinions? How did you kind of go through to that process?
Bill:
Well, like I said, construction expertise was necessary or else my clients wouldn't stay on. So that was the key thing. You and I met each other that day by chance. We started talking a lot after that. And then when I decided I was going to get serious about selling the practice, I did talk to another firm, a firm that had been doing my peer reviews, since I've had my practice, just so I had two different angles to look at. But I pull out for your firm. I mean, you guys, to me anyway, appeared to be more dedicated or anxious to build that part of your practice, even larger than it already was.
You were doing a lot of things advisory wise with your construction clients. You just seem to be more focused on the industry. And my clients, as we said before, some of them are getting older. Some of them are reaching a transition stage and they're going to need help trying to decide how to handle that. And we both know there's a lot of different aspects when it comes to merging and selling your company. So it had to be somebody that was going to serve my clients properly in my mind.
Doug:
Yeah. And we do appreciate that Bill. That was great. And I've known a lot of clients who were yours and now are part of Rea for a number of years as well. And I think you have to take, ultimately, which I know you did. And the thing that always stuck out to me about you, you really took pride in those clients and who they were and how they did. And you really got to know them well. And I think that's something that is rare to see, and I applaud you for it. And that's why it was always attractive to me because that's the goal I have for how you serve clients. You want to feel like you're a little bit a part of their success and you're there for them to help them out, right?
Bill:
Yeah. And I think that's the most interesting part of an accounting practice. I mean, yeah, you have to do the taxes, you have to do the financial statements, but it's when your clients come to you, looking for your input on a transaction, they're going to do really anything they might have going on. That's the fun stuff, that's the interesting stuff to work with, with them. So yeah. A lot of them would come after... You work with people for a number of years. I do trust your advice.
Doug:
Yeah.
Bill:
And I do [inaudible 00:18:44]. It does make you feel good that they want to seek out your input.
Doug:
Yep. And I know many will miss you from a full time basis and we'll find a way to keep you connected with them. That's for sure. And I know-
Bill:
I'm always available Doug.
Doug:
Yes, absolutely.
Bill:
If you need me call me.
Doug:
Absolutely. Well, thanks Bill. We'll have to get together and cheer your official retirement here at some point when we can do that comfortably in person. So we look forward to that.
Bill:
Yeah, I'm waiting for that as well Doug.
Doug:
Look forward to it. Well, thanks again. And if you want more business tips and insight, or to hear previous episodes of unsuitable, visit our podcast page at www.reacpa.com/podcast. And while you're there, sign up for exclusive content and show notes. Thanks for listening to this weeks show, be sure to subscribe to Unsuitable on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, or wherever you're listening to us right now, including YouTube. I'm Doug Houser. Join us next week for another unsuitable interview from an industry professional.
Disclaimer:
The views expressed on unsuitable on Rea Radio are our own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Rea associates. The podcast is for informational and educational purposes only, and is not intended to replace the professional advice you would receive elsewhere. Consult with a trusted advisor about your unique situation so they can expertly guide you to the best solution for your specific circumstance.
