Annie:
Again, this is just, we're doing our best. Continue to communicate and be flexible. Your mindset needs to be flexible. Your schedule, you need to be flexible. Just embrace that word.
Doug:
From Rea and Associates remote Newark, Ohio studio. This is Unsuitable, a management and financial services podcast for entrepreneurs, tenured business leaders and others who are ready to look beyond the suit and tie culture for meaningful, measurable results. I'm Doug Houser on this weekly podcast thought leaders and business professionals break down complicated and mundane topics and give you the tips and insight you actually need to grow as a leader and help your organization thrive. If you haven't already please hit the subscribe button so you don't miss future episodes. And if you want access to even more information, show notes and exclusive content, visit our website at www.raecpa.com/podcast, and sign up for updates like the last couple of episodes. We're recording this in early April. And as you can see, we're still doing the virtual thing. Some people call this kind of setup the new normal while I'm not sure if that's 100% accurate.
I do think that as a result of the COVID-19 crisis, the way we do our jobs and the way employers conduct business will never be the same. Here at Rea we've been working to accommodate a growing remote workforce. Many of our policies were already in the process of being created when the order came down from the governor to work from home, if possible. However, we know that many businesses struggled to accommodate these orders, which resulted in a wide variety of challenges. Today Annie Yoder, Rae's director of development and Becky Boyd, a manager on our practice growth team and a long time member of our remote workforce are here to share some best practices, tips, and insight to help others embrace the possibilities of a work from home culture. Welcome to Unsuitable, Annie and Becky.
Annie:
Thank you.
Doug:
So Annie, as director of development, talk to me about our preparation pre-crisis for thinking about telecommuting, and obviously Becky's a veteran of that, but as a firm, what did we think about or do prior to the crisis?
Annie:
So I don't know if it was coincidence or it was getting us ready for what has ensued, but we've had more people move to telework in the past 12 to 18 months and actually fully remote, so there's a little bit of a difference for conceptually telework versus remote and logistics are the difference, right? Are they typically close? And do they telework like Becky, or we have an employee who's in Florida and they're 100% remote. And so that was kind of the impetus of us starting to plan and put more infrastructure in place. Now the technology was already being moved to the cloud and already we were starting to get Zoom, which we're on, which is a big piece of why we can telework today. So we were already leading up to that and it certainly didn't go perfectly, but thank goodness as an organization, we had put our ducks in a row and we could push people out the door. 95 to 98% of our workforce went remote and overnight, literally overnight.
Doug:
Yeah. Which way we were forced to do, right?
Annie:
We were.
Doug:
We've been deemed an essential business, obviously it's still we want the health and safety is …
Annie:
Absolutely. Yep.
Doug:
So Becky talk about your journey in terms of starting to work remotely. And how was that for you in terms of adapting to that?
Becky:
Yeah, so I'll be honest. It wasn't maybe my first choice, if you will. I had dealt with some health issues that kind of sidelined me for a little while. It just made sense for me to work from home being in an environment where I could rest if I needed to, but obviously work hard. So I would say it was probably 2017 is when I started working from home full time. And I'll be honest, I know that I was a little hesitant about it because I think for me, boundaries is very important and I know that that's something that we all are learning these days, but boundaries is extremely important when you're moving to work from home because you're basically working obviously where you live.
So I was a little nervous at first how that would work out, but I mean, obviously we're three years later and there's been some lessons learned big time when it comes to that, but overall I would say that's probably the biggest shock for me was just how easy it is to say like, "Oh, it's 9:30." And "Oh, I can just jump on real quick and answer some emails." But it's like, no, I need to spend time with my husband and my daughter and all of that stuff so.
Doug:
And that was-
Becky:
Was not as bad as I thought, but still there's definitely a big learning curve.
Doug:
So Becky, was there any trepidation on your part like, oh my gosh, this is the firm, or is my employer going to see the same value because I'm working from home? Not that you weren't going to do the work, but concerned about that visibility lack of that. Was that something [crosstalk 00:05:42]?
Becky:
Yeah. So that was definitely something upfront that I was concerned about. It was interesting because I would say maybe six to eight months in, I was in the office one day for a meeting and Don McIntosh walked in and he just kind of looked at me and was like, "I haven't seen you in a while." And I was like, "Oh yeah, I'm still here." And as funny as that seemed, that part of me was like, oh wow, I'm not seeing as much. And those of us that do work remote, I do feel like in some ways I think I thought, well, I've got to work harder and I've got to be visible at every chance I can get. But I really think if you put your head down and work hard, and I know that's a conversation I've been having with my boss over the last few years. My biggest thing is, am I providing value?
If I'm not providing value, we need to fix it or something must be wrong with me type of thing. And so it's always, that's one of my biggest questions to her is, am I providing value to the team that I work on also to the firm? And I think at the end of the day, if you can answer that question and the answer is yes, I think being invisible is what it is at the end of the day. If I'm not there, but I'm still adding value, that's important.
Doug:
Yeah. That's great perspective on that and to have that self-awareness is fantastic. So Annie, from your perspective, from the employer's perspective, how do we adapt to this where now, okay, we've got an entire workforce that's working this way and to make sure that that communication goes both ways, right? I mean, what are some of the tools and things that we've put in place or that we've learned to enhance that?
Annie:
Before I jump into that, Doug, I just wanted to two things that Becky said that jumped out at me are the visibility part of that is her responsibility, of course, but advocacy. So working with her boss and others and having that advocate or advocates inside the firm to talk to you when the doors are closed, right? So it doesn't matter, that's applicable whether you're remote or teleworking or physically there that you have to have those advocates inside the organization that are helping you be visible, even when you're not there. So I think that's important to share. And the boundary thing, amen to that. Right? So I think that, again, it doesn't matter where you're working, but this whole concept of people say work-life balance, or in the words I use and others use, our work-life integration. And we could not be feeling that more than right now when your kids come behind you, I had to lock the door so you didn't get a little surprise guest or two. Or you always hear a dog barking, whatever the case may be, but let's have a little grace with each other, have a little kindness and know that that's just, part of life and we're all trying to do our best. And that doesn't matter if it's COVID or inside COVID or outside of the COVID pandemic that we're dealing with.
Yeah, some of the things that our firm has done is I think beyond the technology infrastructure, like Zoom, again, that we're on is starting three, four plus years ago, really focusing on talent development and performance management and having coaches and coachees. Some people might call it something different in the organization. But thinking about that one size fits one. What worked for Becky worked for her may not work for Doug in that the communication channels, whether they're email or video conferencing or telephone or text messages, have that conversation with those that you're working with, managers or subordinates, to figure out what that dialogue should look like and take it seriously. Take the fact that you should be communicating and over-communicating and that there's onus on both parties. I think again, not perfectly, but I think our organization takes that pretty seriously. And I think that's a recommendation to those listening is to take responsibility on both sides of the table.
Doug:
Yeah. I think that's certainly great advice too. And as you said, that goes forward for any time, but it's even more important now because you need that visibility because you can't just walk down the hall and sit face-to-face. So this is what we have to do. And I think again, you talk about the environment as well. I think we've all learned, I know I have, even though I'm used to being on the road or out at clients or perspective clients, but in terms of trying to actually be productive, it doesn't have to be a set time during the day. It doesn't have to be eight to five, right? Is that something that we've grown more flexible with?
Annie:
Yeah, absolutely. We have folks that have flex schedules. They start later or they leave earlier and I would say now even more than ever we have people that are getting up working from six to noon and then not working for four hours and then getting on later because of childcare issues. We are certainly in unique circumstances right now. In a normal circumstance it's employer and employee need to figure out what that looks like and come to an agreement and come to an agreement what works for both parties, because we are client service-oriented, so we have to be available for our clients, whether it's Becky servicing an internal client or us servicing an external clients, there has to be some agreement there. But yeah, absolutely I think as an organization we've become more flexible.
Doug:
And I think from a mental health perspective too, because you are in that home environment, I know that's one thing I've personally altered. I'll take some time around mid-afternoon, which is typically the time of the day where I am at my least sharp, I'm very much an early morning person. So for me, it's like, all right, I need to go take a 30-minute walk just to reenergize and do that. Now that's something I never did obviously before, but I've found that it's really worked for me and added some productivity time later in the day that I can be more focused on. So Becky, what kind of lessons like that have you learned over the last three years as you've done this? You talked about boundaries a little bit, but share with us some tips and tricks that you've learned that have helped you.
Becky:
Yeah. Well, I wanted to pick up on something that Annie had mentioned just a little bit ago is showing each other grace. I know that that was something that I feel like I was really hard on myself personally about when I first started. So when I first started working, we had a little one. She's she's four now, but she was really little. And if she were to cry after I thought she was sleeping or something happened, I would get so worried about whoever I was on the phone with. And most of my clients are internal clients, but it doesn't matter. I think most people would still want to put out that professional work.
Doug:
Or just the appearance.
Becky:
Yeah, the appearance. Exactly. You wouldn't have the professional appearance, even though you're working from home. And Annie had mentioned about just that we need to have grace with one another. And I think that that's something that had been shown to me. It doesn't happen all the time, but there are times where she'll run into the room and I might be on my team call and they're really good about just, we understand, you've got a little one. And most of the time now she's at preschool, but if it were to happen that she was home. So I think that that's something that I've been shown grace and so for me to in turn show that to other people, especially with all of us now working at home, we don't know. We do our best to create a space in our home that we can close the door or we can be by ourselves. And sometimes, especially in this environment that we're in now, that isn't always the case.
And I don't know if there some listeners might've seen that recent video. It was a guy, I think he was maybe a BBC interview or something-
Doug:
Oh, I saw that.
Becky:
It was like one kid was in one of those walkers. Anyway. So yeah, it's going to happen even on a professional TV interview, it's going to happen.
Doug:
Absolutely.
Becky:
And so I think that that, like you mentioned Doug, is just that's a big lesson, just having grace with one another. Of course, that doesn't mean that you just let yourself go lax and not present yourself professionally, but at the end of the day, we're all humans and we're all doing the best that we can, I mean, putting our best foot forward,
Doug:
I think as much as anything we all have, there's things like that that are going to happen. There's distractions that happen when you're in the office, they are different types of distractions, but it's how you react to those things more than anything. And I think in some ways it allows clients again, whether they're internal or external, to see that more humans side of each and every one of us, right? And it's how you react to those situations. It's not that they happen, but how do you react? I think people learn a lot and feel like it's a much better relationship if you react the right way. So Annie, it brings me to a topic that I've wondered about is we're all now doing this. What concerns or what have we learned about, okay, my gosh now we're all of a sudden exposed to each other's home environments in some way, right? Even though you try to shut the door and in a home office or do things like that, what concerns or what have we learned about that part of it with the Zoom calls and all of that?
Annie:
Yeah. Part of it is it really boils down to security and making sure there still is an environment that can be shut off. Again, a door can open and whatnot, but we have a lot of information that we hold. I mean, our security is way up there in priority, if not number one in priority. And so now we're exposed to all of these environments and we take cyber security very, very seriously. And so not only is there a security concern, I don't even want to say concern, but I would say we're very on top of that. So we want our folks to have an area that's dedicated and that client information is very secure. And we also, we want our people to feel comfortable where they're working.
So sitting in the seat I'm sitting in, and I can't say there I don't have any vignettes or stories from Rea & Associates, but the things that go through mind are, what if it's not conducive to work at home? What if it's an environment that work is their refuge versus their outlet in physically coming. And so you already hit on it Doug as the mental health of our employees and the mental health of our client's employees. That's something we really need to think about that there's a dynamic of working remotely that humans are meant for connection and whether or not you're getting that remotely or not, we have to figure out a way that there's healthy connections being made, whether you're remote, teleworking, or you're physically sitting in an office.
Doug:
Yeah, absolutely. I know we've taken our group we've taken a do and I know others have throughout the firm, we do virtual happy hours now and things like that, that's certainly become popular and it's fun. We've enjoyed it. You still do have to connect. But in thinking forward, we're in the midst of this crisis now, and obviously you're at the highest levels of the firm involved in a lot of the forward thinking and strategic planning. Has this changed the thought process or the mindset of, gosh how much real estate do we need? Or how do we think about this differently? What if we have half of our folks work this way, or whatever? I mean, can you talk a little bit about some of those thoughts?
Annie:
I certainly can. So the answer is yes and yes and run down the road to that. I don't think it's changed our mindset, but it went from zero to 100, the thinking of it, because right now it's going to be a guessing game. We're already putting ourselves in the position of saying, "How many people are going to request a telework, either partial or full telework schedule when things go," I'm air quoting, "back to normal?" Because certainly there's going to be a percentage of our workforce that do that. And we're in the midst of looking at building and building a new building in one of our particular areas. And now we're like, "Wow, what does that do to real estate? What does that do to potential? Does that free up capital?" Right? So, I mean, again, from a mind-mapping standpoint, this goes down about 400 layers that you could keep digging into. And the effect of just one thing going from being mostly physical in our offices to remote. So yes, those are all things that we're talking about and thinking about, and starting to not only put the infrastructure in place, but figure out what dynamics, like what happens next if that lever gets pulled.
Doug:
Yeah. And beyond that too, I've got to believe, obviously that opens up the possibility for additional talent, right?
Annie:
You got it.
Doug:
Because you have folks that maybe that's the only option that they want or they're geographically not anywhere near where we are. So, I mean, is that part of the thought process too? You try to embrace those kinds of things?
Annie:
Yeah. We talk a lot about, and I, in particular am challenging some of our folks to say, "What are we going to do? When we have a team sitting in Texas or we have a team sitting, you name it, insert country, state, whatever it is, zip code that we're going to have teams that think of the service opportunities that we could open up. So we just brought on a cyber security practice. Well, what if the next best thing is to have a cyber practice in Texas? I mean, that's doable and the talent market and the service and the potential for increased revenue just went open exponentially. Sure. The firms. So absolutely that's a big takeaway for remote work is the fact that you can outreach. You can now reach talent, that you may have been locked in, that they had to be at logistically close to you.
Doug:
Yeah. And I think it'll be interesting to see how we sort of the business community overall rebalances itself, because there's certainly a segment, I've always been a believer in this and my role that it helps to be present and helps to be with people that are in your industry or that are doing similar things because you learn so much from being around them and just having those conversations. And I think there's a balance there, but I think it's figuring out how that does rebalance will be a challenge for all of us going forward.
So as we move forward in this COVID-19 crisis, hopefully by the time this airs, we've got some more guidance in terms of moving forward. But part of it is too, you think about the planning with regards to, well, what if it's likely not going to be just a switch turn back on. So it's maybe a partial workforce that can be present and together because they, whatever, have passed some test or all of that. What things do we do to change going from sort of a all remote type of situation that we're in now to being sort of that balance? And how does that look?
Annie:
So part of it is just planning, just like you do with anything, just like we planned with business continuity and mapping out what that would look like. And so one of the topics that we're talking a lot about right now is reentry into the workforce and what parallels are out there. And so I had a discussion with a consultant yesterday about, this may sound a little odd, but think about re-entry coming out of prison, coming into civilian life, out of the military, any natural disaster and the fourth one is astronauts in isolation coming back to earth. So what parallels can we look at with those situations and prepare our organization and even help clients to some extent, prepare their organizations for reentry, not a full blown, but melding back into what we thought was normal. And so, yeah, those are the discussions we're having and, shameless plug, we're looking at doing a podcast on that topic.
Doug:
Excellent. Well, it's interesting because my oldest daughter is in the Navy and she was on a submarine last summer and speaking of reentry, it was much the same for her as well being isolated, in essence, with a small crew for 30 days and then all of a sudden you're back with the rest of the Naval personnel. So it's very interesting. I'm going to ask her.
Annie:
I might have to interview her.
Doug:
Yeah. She's been asking to come on.
Annie:
There you go.
Doug:
So Becky, from your perspective, you talk about that balance and learning some of these things that you have over the past few years. Are there any things that continue in your mind to be the biggest challenge for you beyond those that we've talked about? We touched on mental health a little bit, but how do you stay sharp and sort of make sure that you're happy with what you're doing from home? Because you don't get maybe as much of that interaction, obviously professional.
Becky:
Well, I know my team, so I'm on the practice growth team at Rea. I know we stay close to one another, even outside of work. We joke with one another, so I think that's been just nice to be able to have the interaction with one another, even if it's not work related. I would say we're involved at our church, so that's something that outside of work, I stay engaged with people that way. And then, I mean, obviously other people too. I mean, there's people at Rea that I'm closer with that I work on certain projects with closer than others, but I know one thing that's really helped and I actually read an article a few days ago about this. There's a ton of literature out there now about practical tips for how to work from home.
One of the things that I saw that really resonated and that I know that I just naturally had to learn on my own, was picking up the phone or Skype calling someone, it's so easy to do everything via email, and not everything, but many of the things get sent via email and it's so nice to be able to talk to individuals on the phone whether from work or even in our personal life. There's a refreshing this to it. So I know that that's something, like I said, it's a tip that I had read a few days ago, but it's something that I'd say maybe when I first started first and was like, "Oh, I don't want to talk them on the phone." Id be like, "No." It will make that personal connection with whoever it was and it just ... So I definitely go more that route most times than via chat or email.
Doug:
So you found yourself trying to emphasize the phone conversations or the video conversation where you can have that?
Becky:
For sure. Yeah, for sure.
Doug:
That's great.
Becky:
And that's something that is now being put out in articles, so.
Doug:
You could've written it.
Becky:
Yeah.
Doug:
Becky, do you regiment your day? I'm just curious. I mean, everybody's different in how they organize themselves, but do you sort of carve out your day ahead of time knowing, okay, I'm going to do these things from this period of time and allow yourself those breaks?
Becky:
Yeah, generally speaking, I know right now it's been a little difficult with our daughter home. We're doing the best that we can to take into account her needs. I do know that I take breaks during the day when she needs that one-on-one interaction. She's our only child so she can only go for so long without having that human one-on-one interaction. So when she's in preschool yeah, our days are very structured and I think that structure helps us figure out, it helps us, I think for me stay focused, but also it keeps me calm because I like order and structure.
Doug:
Yeah. Well, we are an accounting firm after all.
Becky:
True.
Doug:
Some of that in all of us.
Annie:
We've told Becky frequently that she was actually meant to be an auditor.
Becky:
Yeah, I think I was.
Doug:
I'm not sure if that's a compliment.
Annie:
That was a compliment. [crosstalk 00:27:30]. It was a compliment.
Becky:
Thanks.
Doug:
Oh, that's funny. So Annie, any last perspective from you on this subject as we move forward with the new normal?
Annie:
I heard a really great quote probably three weeks ago and it went something like this, I'm paraphrasing. It was, if you thought you had control of your employees when you were in the office, you were wrong. You didn't have control then and you don't have control now. So just realize that. And so the perspective is, again, this is just, we're doing our best, continue to communicate and be flexible. Your mindset needs to be flexible, your schedule, you need to be flexible. Just embrace that word.
Doug:
Yeah. I love that. That's great insight. Well, Thank you both-
Becky:
If I could just jump in real fast too. I'm kind of piggybacking off of what Annie said earlier, just now and then at the beginning of our conversation, she mentioned about the responsibility that the remote employees have as well as the employers have. And I would just echo that that's something that I would agree with, especially from the employee perspective. I mean, as far as communication goes, I think clear, constant communication is important on the employee end. Don't leave your team and your boss wondering where projects are. Don't leave anybody for that matter wondering where something is. Do your best to be as clear and I think Annie even mentioned the word, like she said, over communicate.
That's something I have found is I don't find that I necessarily can over communicate, just because you want to make sure that everybody knows you've got what you're doing. You're not going to let the ball drop just because you're working from home. And I know there's a variety of programs that are out there, but our team, the practice growth team, we use a project management system called Asana and that has also been, I think, a really big help for our team as a few of us work in different locations office wise, but then also myself from home. It's really been a great place for us to go look at various projects and where things are at, so.
Doug:
That's awesome. Yeah. Love that. Great tips and insight from both of you. I really appreciate it. Thank you for being on.
Annie:
Of course.
Becky:
Yeah.
Doug:
And if you want more business tips and insight, or to hear previous episodes of Unsuitable, please visit our podcast page at www.raecpa.com/podcast. And while you're there, sign up for exclusive content and show notes. Thanks for listening to this week's show. Be sure to subscribe to Unsuitable on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening to us right now, including YouTube. I'm Doug Houser. Join us next week for another Unsuitable interview from an industry professional.
Speaker 4:
The views expressed on Unsuitable on Rea Radio are our own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Rea and associates. The podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and is not intended to replace the professional advice you would receive elsewhere. Consult with a trusted advisor about your unique situation so they can expertly guide you to the best solution for your specific circumstance.
