Dave Cain: Welcome to unsuitable on Rea Radio, the award-winning financial services and business advisory podcast that challenges your old school business practices, and their traditional business suit culture. Our guests are industry professionals and expert, who will challenge you to think beyond the suit and tie while offering you meaningful modern solutions to helping hands in your company’s growth.
Dave: I’m your host Dave Cain. By 2025 the millennial generation will make up about 75% of the workforce, and if you haven’t noticed this segment of the population does things a little differently than their predecessors. Adam McCampbell, a millennial leadership consultant is passionate about creating organizations where everyone can thrive. Today, he will join us to talk about today’s changing workforce. Adam has consulted with companies nationwide and has helped them identify and develop top talent throughout their company. I can’t wait to pick his brain. Welcome Adam.
Adam McCampbell: Thanks, Dave. Thanks, for having me.
Dave: Good to have you around, and I want to go back to what we started with by 2025 the millennial generation will make up about 75% of the workforce.
Adam: Yeah. That’s true.
Dave: And you’re going to help the baby boomers deal with that. That’s what you do.
Adam: It is. It is what I do, and really the fact is, is that we’re moving away from it being a millennial conversation and moving it more into a workforce conversation.
Dave: Sure. I understand world headquarters for your company is located in Dublin, Ohio. Just down the street from our recording studios here in Dublin, Ohio.
Adam: Yes.
Dave: And your website, can you give our listeners the website-
Adam: Absolutely.
Dave: They’d like to go on.
Adam: Adammccampbell.com, A-D-A-M-M-C-C-A-M-P-B-E-L-L.
Dave: And they’ll find it, they go on there they may find that your yellow lab is named Griffey.
Adam: That’s right. Yeah. He’s moving a little slower these days, but doing well. I have two young boys, and married to my wife for 14 years.
Dave: Where’d you come up with a Griffey?
Adam: …
Dave: Fan?
Adam: That’s right.
Dave: … fan?
Adam: That’s right.
Dave: What about Ken Griffey, senior? That’s my era.
Adam: Yeah. Ken Griffey is even getting a little age to him now these days, too.
Dave: Good. One of the things we’re going to take about is bridging the generational gap, and of course I think you’re a millennial.
Adam: I am. I actually call myself an ancient millennial.
Dave: Ancient millennial.
Adam: Yeah.
Dave: And I’m a baby boomer, so I’m not sure how this podcast is going to go.
Adam: It’ll go great.
Dave: It’ll go. Yes. We talked yesterday on some notes in preparation for today’s production. We did go into and talk about that 75% of the workforce is changing, will be millennials, and leadership styles have to change, or will change, not have to change, but are changing. Can you comment on some things you’re seeing in your travels of what’s happening, of what you’re discussing with your companies?
Adam: Yeah. It really is a leadership issue. What I’m seeing and having a chance to help facilitate some of those conversations is a movement towards more of a servant leadership style. Some people don’t like that word, so we need to say, people first leadership style, where we’re moving to be a little more broad in our thinking as leaders, that we’re not just focused on ourselves, or our consumer, or the bottom line, the shareholder, and that we’re moving towards more of a larger picture considering all the stakeholders. Employees, customers, vendors, our community, so that’s really what I’m passionate about, and what I love talking about.
Dave: You know, when I was looking at some of your notes, and some things on your website, and get a general feel of some of the things you consult with, I saw a term, certified care to lead coach. I wrote that down, I got it highlighted in my notes, you can see that, and what the heck is certified to lead coach?
Adam: Yes. Care to lead is a curriculum created by a social enterprise here in town called Relā. They’re a leadership development organization. I’ve been a volunteer for them for a number of years, and they created a curriculum that I absolutely love. It’s a servant leadership based curriculum around care, so connect the line, release, and encourage, and I believe that really helps companies do what I talk about as far as moving to be more encompassing with all generations, because really, like I said, it’s not really a millennial issue, it’s a leadership issue to a company and take into consideration more people.
Dave: On the podcast, and the podcast community we talk a lot about leadership, and leadership styles, and succession planning, and of course there’s a big component there that needs some leadership, but we hear this term, and I’ll throw this term to you, and then you comment.
Adam: Okay.
Dave: If I’m talking to a senior leader, senior ownership in a company, typically I’ll get the comment, “Well, that person’s not ready to assume the role.”
Adam: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dave: Right away when I hear that, I’m thinking, oh, boy they need your services.
Adam: Yeah. I hear that a lot. The reality is that’s an area that those senior leaders really need to challenge within themselves. What got me into this whole world was a study on the demographics, baby boomers, depending on who you talk to about, 80 million, Gen X, the next generation that’s suppose to replace them, about 45 million, so half the size. Then next large generation are millennials. That middle generation is not going to be able to replace all the retiring baby boomers, so we’re going to have to take some steps of faith and trust some of these millennials in leadership roles that they may feel they’re not ready for.
Dave: Part of your consulting that you do may be sit down with the senior leadership, and have a very honest, and direct conversation about hey, man chill out, give this group a chance, they’ve got some great ideas.
Adam: Yeah. My background, I owned an executive search firm for about seven years, and had a chance to consult and speak all over the country with midsize companies, a lot of manufacturers, and I could tell pretty quickly if they were having issues in this topic just by the make up of the leadership team, and if there were no millennials on that team, and they were having this issue, that would be one of the first things I started to press into is where’s the representation, and have you really even talked to the people in your company about this that are in this demographic?
Dave: You used the word trust, there has to be a trust on both sides.
Adam: There does, but Dave I firmly believe the leader goes first..
Dave: Good point.
Adam: Yeah.
Dave: Good point. One of the things that we talk about is a new generation has new values, and expectations of the workforce, and leadership, and I think you pointed out to me that here certainly we may have a workforce that has three or four generations within that workforce.
Adam: Yeah. Right now, there’s traditionalists, and they’re for the most part retired, but they’ve started companies, so they’re thinking, their fingerprints are all over organizations, still, and then boomers, Gen X, and millennial, and so that’s a broad range of different perspectives and values.
Dave: You work with a company like I mentioned that had maybe three to four generations, I mean, you’ll do some consulting with them to join those cultures of those various age groups and blend them and help them thrive.
Adam: Yeah. The big thing is helping people realize that, and it sounds funny, but that the world has just changed. The way we perceive work, and the different values we have are influenced by how that world has changed, and how that generation was brought up, and it’s time to be a little more expansive in what we consider our workforce.
Dave: Let’s talk about a couple of examples.
Adam: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dave: Let me throw a couple questions to you-
Adam: Sure.
Dave: And real life thing, see how we do here.
Adam: Put me on the spot?
Dave: Yeah. You got it. Okay. My generation we start at 8:00, but by golly I’m going to be there 20 til eight. What time does your generation get to work?
Adam: Time isn’t as important as the result, so this generation values wanting to see results over time, so it just depends. It depends on that culture, and that team, and their focus is what do I have to accomplish, what’s my expectation, and am I meeting those expectations, and if I am, and I’m getting the job done, is time as big of a deal?
Dave: As the baby boomer, I have to understand that, that you’re looking at results, let’s look at results not what time you get to the office.
Adam: Yeah, because often times what I hear from millennial employees is sometimes it’s an efficiency issue, if I can get more done in a shorter amount of time why do I have to be there, or why do I have to stay, and if someone else takes two hours longer than I do, why are they getting promoted or rewarded, and I’m getting criticized?
Dave: Adam, in this company we do our work here at the office, 8:00 to 5:00, you know, 8:00 to 6:00.
Adam: Yep.
Dave: Five days a week, maybe Saturday morning, if we’re behind schedule. What’s your work week look like? By the way, we don’t take work home … . We might take work home, we’ve got to read and stuff like that.
Adam: Yeah.
Dave: Okay.
Adam: It might be something we have to talk about, Dave. You know, this generation, millennials, freedom is a big deal. Freedom over not just my work, and my results, and my job, but also where I work. That’s a hot topic. I often talk to owners that are a little testy about that and they say, “Adam, you know, my employee came to me, and said, “I really need to work from home the next two days,” and the response is, “Well, we really don’t have a work from home policy,” and I pause, and I say, “Well, that’s interesting, what happens when that employee gets a call at 9:30 at night from a client and it’s an emergency? What’s the expectation, and the policy then?” More often than not it’s handle that call, and so I think there needs to be an honest dialogue that goes both ways, you can’t have both. If you’re not having a work from home policy, how can you expect that employee to still do that at 9:00, 10:00, 11:00 at night?
Dave: You know, when I come in the office I turn my cell phone off and put it in the corner, and I don’t look at it again until maybe lunch. Where’s your cellphone?
Adam: In my pocket, always. Except, when I’m on a podcast.
Dave: … .
Adam: Yeah. My ringer is broken. That’s a big issue, and I realize that different industries, and different work places have to address that. I tend to lean more towards it’s the way the worlds changed, and it’s a tech issue, and as we all know millennials are very tech centric and so if it’s not a disruption to the job I think it’s a nonissue.
Dave: You know, Adam, in our company we wear, occasionally we wear coats and ties, and we wear wingtips and I notice you have flip flops on today, and jeans. What’s that all about?
Adam: You know, I almost put the flip flops on, but I did put on my nice jeans, and I tucked my shirt in for you, Dave. The big thing with this generation is that line between the personal and the professional is gone. That formality of office, whether it be strict timelines, dress code, all of those things are being challenged by this generation, and again, if it’s not a function of getting the job done, I think it’s something that needs to be discussed, and honestly analyzed.
Dave: You’re right, going back to where we started this conversation, we had some fun, and I was-
Adam: Yeah.
Dave: I was hoping we could have that conversation, but it’s results. It’s a result driven culture in generations, and I think that’s where you can come in, and give some key consulting ideas to both sides of the fence. I want to make sure that this conversation, and in some companies it’s us versus them.
Adam: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dave: And that’s certainly not the way this is coming across. I think you help blend that culture.
Adam: Yeah. I do want to help kind of change the tone, because I feel that as I traveled, and worked with a variety of different companies that there is a little bit of a harsh tone towards the millennial generation, and I do want to change that a bit. Often times you may not have a millennial issue, you may have a selection issue, and maybe a hiring issue. That’s something I do as well is I come in and help analyze your hiring process, your hiring practices, so that could be the challenge, but I do feel passionate about changing this us verse them tone that does get thrown around a lot with this conversation.
Dave: Oh, I hear that more and more in this conversation, even though we’re laughing and having a good-
Adam: Yeah.
Dave: Time about it, it’s real
Adam: It is real.
Dave: I will tell you, it is totally real.
Adam: The reality is, back to the start of the conversation, you can’t really change the fact that this generation is coming, they have different expectations, and they are the workforce, and so it’s time to start to look a little more inward as to how are we approaching this?
Dave: You know, yesterday, you and I had a conversation off the record about the type of clients that Rea and Associates works with, and one of the things we work with, type of company is we have companies that have been handed down from generation to generation, to generation, and again here’s this baby boomer to millennial issue may be at the height of the discussion where maybe that’s a little bit more difficult in a family business.
Adam: It is. It’s so difficult. I have a special place in my heart, I actually, I grew up on a family farm, which was a family business, saw the good, the bad, and the ugly, and have taken that with me into the workplace, and many of the companies I worked for when I was in executive search were family owned, and I’m seeing that now, you add family, and it gets even more heated, and more difficult. There’s more emotions involved, but still the tone of the conversation is still pretty much the same, it’s a matter of, “Hey, the worlds changed, our workforce is changing, how do we adapt, and how do we look at that?” And whether it’s a family owned business, or not, just another legacy company with succession planning needs its still time to have that honest conversation sooner than later.
Dave: Let’s talk about some of the engagements you’ve been involved in, speaking engagements, or consulting engagements. What size of companies do you work with?
Adam: Across the board I work with executives one on one, but also companies anywhere ranging from small family owned businesses to a couple 100 employees. Usually the larger companies I will do speaking engagements with them, as well, but a lot of them also have HR departments to help with this. I come in and assist them, too, but my sweet spots are really that a couple million to 50 million.
Dave: Sure. After your presentations, and speaking engagements, do you get standing ovations from the millennials?
Adam: Always.
Dave: Always.
Adam: Always.
Dave: What do the baby boomers say? They’re like, they’re checking their phone, ready to go.
Adam: You know, it’s funny, because depending on the demographic of the audience, sometimes I really have to push the millennials to talk, but once I get them talking, yeah, it starts to come out. It starts to come out that there’s some things that need to be discussed.
Dave: You know, you’ve mentioned something, and I didn’t really think about this is that maybe this separation, if you will, and some of the cultures between the generations is more of a hiring issue not a leadership issue.
Adam: There are duds in every generation, so absolutely, and I think the fact that a new generation is coming in, it’s time to really look at our culture, and our processes, and how we are blending that into our selection. I think the companies with great cultures and have taken the initiative to shape, and curate, and use that culture are doing a little better. The companies that have allowed their culture to be dictated really by the generation in charge they’re struggling a little bit.
Dave: You know, the search for talent is alive and well, very difficult, and we talk about that often on the podcast. As you’re out in the community, is that real? Do you see the search for talent is a real challenge for all of us?
Adam: All the time. That’s really where I come in is usually there’s an issue with recruitment, or retention. Typically, it is around possibly bringing in some millennial generation folks, but it can be across the board. I think it’s Ink that puts out their survey, and number one, and number two issue is always I can grow faster if I had more people, or if I had the right people.
Dave: You know, if I’m your boss, and I’m not treating you very well, and I’m not giving you the evaluations and the feedback you’re not sticking around are you? You got choices.
Adam: This generation is a transactional generation unless you give them reason otherwise, and so if it’s all based around pay, and that’s why you’re there. Yeah, they’ll be gone quickly.
Dave: You know, there was this story, and I apologize I don’t have the source, but I did read that millennials aren’t very good tippers in restaurants, and bars, any thought on that?
Adam: Well, you know, I have heard financially they’re a little more conservative, a little more willing to stay in mom and dads basement, that’s another time, another discussion, but save their money.
Dave: Yeah.
Adam: I am seeing that a little bit, so that could be part of it.
Dave: What I heard is they just have too much student debt. That’s probably it, maybe.
Adam: Could be.
Dave: You know, you’d mentioned the line between personal and professional no longer exist, can you expand on that statement?
Adam: Yeah. It’s really again the worlds changed, we’re in a 24/7 always connected, always on, always public society, and that’s impacted the workplace. I talked to some baby boomers, even traditionalists, and I’ve heard, hey, when our generation it was you went to work and you had your professional life, and then you went home and you had your home life, it’s really hard to keep those separate now. It’s really hard if my supervisor goes out and plays in an ’80s hair band, you know cover band, on the weekend, and then comes in and tries to be super formal with me, but I know that because of the pictures posted on Facebook, it’s just kind of messy, wonky, and so that line is gone, and we talked about the casualization of the dress code in the workplace, just that formality is really disappeared, and some people say it’s bad, some people say it’s good.
Dave: Okay. We are winding down the podcast here, I’m going to put you on the spot, again.
Adam: Go for it.
Dave: You’re doing okay?
Adam: Yeah.
Dave: Your generation is pretty smart. You know? All right. We’re doing some one on one consulting. You know, I’m a baby boomer give me three things that I need to work on, on my leadership with the younger generation.
Adam: Usually, the number one thing is communication, it’s typically not enough. Baby boomers more often than not assume that, hey, I’ve told them once, and they know their job, go do it, that tends to hold true, gen X is pretty independent as well, hey, I’ve told the millennials, they need to know, and if the annual review is the only time we’re talking about performance, and expectation, and how you’re doing, you’re going to be in trouble. This generation needs, again, 24/7 connected world, much more feedback. They want open, honest conversations. One on one conversations, and I say at a minimum quarterly.
Dave: Minimum.
Adam: Minimum. I would prefer a sit down, it doesn’t have to be long. It doesn’t have to be super formal. You know, a couple times a month, and I realize that may just not be reality, but at minimum quarterly. More communication. One too I throw out there is a stay interview, so taking your top performers, and this doesn’t just have to be millennial, but if retention is an issue, often times we ignore our top performers, just sitting down with our top performers and asking them questions about, hey what do you look forward to, come into work? What are some barriers that I could help remove in your job? The question I really like is, “How has the job description, and what you thought this job was going to be match those expectations?” Again, it helps open up that dialogue that this generation really wants. The last one is please take a look at the website, if recruiting is an issue, that website needs to be updated, and a little less institutional, so not so much about the company, but more about the great people that work for you. I see that all the time.
Dave: You know, you and I have only met each other for about 30 minutes, had a conversation, I can offer you a job here, in the next 15 minutes we can get a contract ready, and you’re ready to go. We’d love to have you on staff. You’ve got a great personality, and some great resources that you can share with your clients, and our clients, so-
Adam: … .
Dave: Well done.
Adam: We’ll talk, but we’ll definitely have to talk about that 8:00 a.m. start time.
Dave: And flip flops.
Adam: Yeah. And flip flops.
Dave: Yeah. No, I’m wearing flip flops. Our guest today has been Adam McCampbell, consultant, leadership consultant. I’m going to use that term, because I think that’s what you do no matter what generation, I think you have tremendous leadership skills, and tools that you can help any company-
Adam: Thank you.
Dave: Of any size.
Adam: Thank you.
Dave: In any industry. Listeners, if you wan to learn more about Adam, and the work he’s doing, check out his website at www.adammccampbell.com, or just call us, we’ll get you his phone number-
Adam: Yeah.
Dave: And address. We’ll get you an appointment.
Adam: Also, if interested, if they want to email me, or reach out to me, I’d be glad to send them those questions I talked about for this day interview.
Dave: Will do. Also, we want you to know what you’re doing to set your business apart from your competitors, listeners send us an email or contact us at reacpa.com, we’re interested in your feedback, and tell us what you are doing to recruit, and retain top talent in your generational business. Don’t forget to like today’s episode, leave us a comment, share it with your friends, and colleagues, and don’t forget to check out videos of our podcast on YouTube. Until next time, I’m Dave Cain encouraging you to loosen up your tie, and think outside the box.
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