Dave Cain: Welcome to unsuitable on Rea Radio, the award-winning financial services and business advisory podcast that challenges your old-school business practices and their traditional business suit culture. Our guests are industry professionals and experts who will challenge you to think beyond the suit and tie, while offering you meaningful, modern solutions to help enhance your company’s growth. I’m your host, Dave Cain.
Business owners, do you ever feel like you’re expected to be two different people? On the one hand, you’re expected to be a genius in your craft. Which means, regardless of whether you manufacture furniture, or brew craft beer, you need to be capable of jumping in and getting your hands dirty. On the other hand, you must maintain a high level view of your company, always poised to act on the opportunities as they arise, while maintaining fluency in sales, marketing, and public relations.
Believe it or not, superheroes like these do exist. In fact, we’re going to talk to somebody who does this every day. Mark Hoops, principal in Rea’s Lima, Ohio office is a skilled business developer with nearly 40 years experience in the accounting and consulting industry.
Today, Mark’s going to talk about the benefits of becoming a people person, how to identify the right opportunities, and how to nurture relationships over a long period of time.
Welcome to unsuitable, Mark!
Mark Hoops: Thank you, Dave.
Dave: How’s it feel to be referred to as a superhero?
Mark: That’s the first time anyone’s called me that.
Dave: Do you have a favorite superhero as you were growing up?
Mark: I’m trying to think who that might be. How about the Lone Ranger?
Dave: The Lone Ranger.
Mark: Yeah, I think the Lone Ranger was mine. Don’t know why.
Dave: What was the Lone Ranger’s horse, what was the name of his horse?
Mark: Well, Tonto was the right hand man. What was the horse’s name?
Dave: Was it Silver?
Mark: Silver! Hi-Ho Silver. Okay.
Dave: Okay, alright, now you’re it. No you’re go.
You know, today’s topic is very pertinent, we have a lot of requests for conversations on business developers and business development, and that’s why we asked you be a first-time guest, so welcome aboard.
Mark: Thank you.
Dave: As we both know, as we go out in the community and talk to our clients and talk to others in our industry, we found that three areas are coming up as key areas for business owners. One is health insurance, the second is maybe finding talent for the organization, and the third is the overall growth and economic health of the business. So that’s what we’re gonna focus on today, is the growth of a business through business development skills.
Mark: Okay.
Dave: So one of the things that, as we talked before we went on air, relationships are important, both internal and external. And let’s start in that area. One of the things I believe is truly overlooked in this business development category, no matter what industry we’re in, are the internal sales components.
Mark: Well, as I think about that, I look at the associates that these companies work with, their inside team. I think if you can get the team buy in on any project, whether you’re manufacturing a widget, selling a service, if you communicate with your team, you get them on board, you tell them what the goals are going to be, they’ll embrace that idea.
Dave: So, many times, like we’ve talked, that’s an area that’s overlooked. You take that internal sales system kind of for granted.
Mark: So I would think, whether it be in a structured team meeting, or a one-on-one with a key associate, you always reinforce what the goal and the strategy of the company might be. So I think, once you get that buy in, they’re willing to go the extra mile. They’ll come and work on a Saturday or a Sunday. Whatever we have to do to get that product out the door. So I think that’s really important, on the internal side.
Dave: So, you have to have just a concentrated effort to make sure that happens each and every day, that you’re selling internally.
Mark: Exactly.
Dave: And as we talked in the opening, that is, I think that’s overlooked very often in all organizations. They put their sales force looking to the outside world for sales when they could just look internally, with existing clients and customers.
Mark: Yup. So that kind of gets to the external folks, too, so, you say customers, maybe key suppliers or vendors. So if I have a long term relationship with a key customer or supplier, you want to nurture that, you want to work with that. And, not jumping ahead to growth, but that’s where you’re going to find the next piece of business. With those customers that you already have. Cross selling to those, additional products to the same folks. Whether it’s, I’m really good at, I’m kind of jumping to growth, but, say I’m really good at powder coating seats for one of the big 3, well maybe I can do it for Honda, maybe I can do it for Toyota.
So, if you look at what our products that we’re really good at, let’s focus on those products. The other side of that, let’s look at the customer. We’ve got a strong relationship with Honda. What else can we sell to Honda? So, there’s two really, ways, I think you can work that. Either on the customer side, and expand that base with that customer, or look at the product that you’re good at and find multiple customers for the one thing you’re really good at.
Dave: So it’s kind of like, you want large fries with that?
Mark: There you go. Yeah, up-size.
Dave: Yeah. So I think you’re of the mindset, part of your mindset is, we have enough customers, we have enough clients, we need to work really hard on making sure those continue to exist and buy additional products and services. To your point about the auto industry.
Mark: Yeah, so I think, if you have a client that comes to you, a customer, capacity is a big part of this, you know, you’re on the same page, you’re communicating with your outside customer. “Hey, we need to add another product, another line. What’s the timeframe, what kind of investment do I need to make in capital?” So you’re on the same page with that customer at all times. And you can continue to grow that business.
Dave: You know, we’d mentioned in the opening that you have approximately 40 years of experience in the industry, in the consulting and CPA business. Certainly, as we talk about business development, social media comes into play. It’s happened very quickly for guys like you and me that have been in the industry for a while. How do we fight that? How do we use it? Do you have any tools?
Mark: Well, so, it certainly has been pain for me, because I’ve been in the business so long. So I’m starting to, I guess, adapt and change a little bit. I still kind of go back to the old relationship business, the good old boy network that we talk about, but I think you got to enhance that. And also, on the relationship side, I don’t know how many times I’ve started a relationship with somebody long before they became a customer. So you get that trust build up, and then for social media, I’m going to take the lead from the younger generation, like the Abbey’s and Becca’s of the world to help us cross that bridge.
Dave: It certainly has changed, there’s no question. And it sounds like you have embraced it, but still need to work through it.
Mark: Exactly.
Dave: But there’s a lot of old time, old-school practices that are still good today. Tried and true, don’t change them.
Mark: That’s exactly right.
Dave: You know, you talk about building relationships and kind of going back to the old school is, we used to do a lot of business on the golf course. Thursday afternoons, Saturday mornings, Sunday afternoons, you name it. Are you still seeing, you still using golf as a method of building those relationships?
Mark: To me, that might be more of a customer maintenance program. I don’t think you’re really building business the way we maybe did 30 or 40 years ago. I think the mindset has changed with the younger generation. You know, they’re at the T-ball game, and they’re at the swim practice, and they’re very more engaged with their family life. So there’s been a big shift, I think, from work first, family later, to family first. So, in my case, 40 years experience, it’s kind of a big change. So you don’t see the networking that you saw in maybe the ’70s and ’80s today. They’re spending more time at home and quality of life, I guess, is a bigger issue today.
Dave: So the network game has changed, no question. And, again, you’ve kind of changed with the flow, and it still goes back to building those relationships. Internal and external.
Mark: Certainly, and I would think networking with, if it’s, I’ll speak to financial services for a minute, with all your referral sources, whether it’s a bank or another provider. If I get to the maybe manufacturing side, it’s more key relationships with the key people. The purchasing agents, find out what their needs are. What are their growth plans? How can we help? So, in both cases, it’s really understanding the needs of the customer.
Dave: You know, we also, on our list, want to talk about growth opportunities, and marketing, and the business development scheme. Certainly, you know, the first area we touched on were relationships. The second one I want to take a crack at are growth opportunities and marketing that you’ve uncovered, or your plans, or tactics. Can you share some things in that area?
Mark: Well I would say if I have a key customer I’m providing products to, it’s get in front of that customer, and what other needs, what other similar type products can we provide to you? If it’s automotive, maybe there’s another part that would come up to bid, how can we plan for that? I think of a embroidery shop, how can I take my key customer and, if I’m doing embroidery services, and expand that? We’re good at something, let’s continue to do what we’re good at. We can’t be all things to all people, but you can narrow your focus to be really good at something.
Dave: Understand your niche.
Mark: Exactly.
Dave: You know, we’re gonna kind of jump around on this topic, because it is a free flowing topic, but in the business development area, you get used to people telling you “no.” As you go out and look for business, you just become calloused to that.
Mark: Well, you know, probably sales is a little different than, I think sales is really, really tough to close. And those salesmen out there and saleswomen, they deserve every penny they make. Sales is tough. The marketing effort, maybe, is a little easier to do, cause you’re not facing that rejection every day. But I think you have to be patient. In time, I think, the customers or prospects will come around. A lot of that is based on testimonials from other users, so, I think you gotta have a little bit of stiff lip if you get rejection, but go back. You never know when that opportunity is gonna be there.
If you happen to call the customer the day that his current supplier misses a shipment, guess what? You’re gonna get your foot in the door. So, stay at it. Keep working with them.
Dave: Do you have a system to track that? Do you use your calendar, your phone-
Mark: Absolutely not, it’s all right in my head.
Dave: You are so old-school. But that works.
Mark: What’s a spreadsheet? I don’t even know what a spreadsheet is.
Dave: Oh that’s that four column pad you used to use.
Mark: Oh, that’s right, yup.
Dave: As I sit here and kind of listen to you talk, and of course I know your style from years of working with you, you’ve kind of developed what I’ll call a personal brand as a business developer. I don’t know if I can describe it, but it’s a personal brand that you’ve worked really hard to put together. You may not know that that’s your personal brand, but you have it. Does that come to mind as we talk through that? Have you-
Mark: Well, I don’t think it, not forefront to my mind, but I do know it helps to have that elevator commercial that you always have something to say to somebody. You know, in my case, my whole life is find out what the customer’s needs are, and then I’d like to talk about capacity. The timing is perfect. Your product fits in our line next month perfectly. Okay? And, or whether it’s other kind of services.
So, I think you find out what their needs are, you sell capacity, you convince them, and you’re much more likely to close.
Dave: And that’s your personal brand. I mean that is the way you’ve tried to connect with customers and clients. You’ve worked really hard to make that connection.
Mark: Exactly.
Dave: And that doesn’t come easy. So, someone out there that’s just starting in the industry, or hasn’t had a great deal of success in business development and growth opportunities in the marketing side, is there any piece of advice you can give them to-
Mark: I would say, try to be as visible as you can. Network when you can, whether it’s professional groups, the young group, the young professionals at the local chamber of commerce. Wherever you can surround yourself with peers, and they’re going to be your customers of the future. So I think you’ve got to get involved every time that you can.
Dave: And you use the word patience as well in there. I think you do have to be patient, because it’s hard to hit a home run in any business, no matter what you’re doing. The sales process is a little longer than maybe it has been in the past.
Mark: Yup. And I think, keep the door open and don’t burn a bridge. We’ve had customers in the past, thought the grass was greener on the other side. They left, they come back a year later and say, “hey, will you take us back?” And I’m always open to that.
Dave: You know, there’s always many books and resources on the topic of business development, which is a little bit different in my mind, in your mind, I think, too, than straight out sales, but are there any books or resources that you’d go back to and read and think about as you go out in the marketplace?
Mark: Not so much with book reading, but I would go to every, in the so called marketing portion of our accounting firm, I’d go to every seminar around the country that I could, and so called learning from the experts, and you might hear a hundred topics and pick up two or three, but I always try to be open minded, to try new things. Don’t reinvent the wheel, but whatever is successful for you, you tend to migrate back to that.
Dave: And you try to seek out the experts.
Mark: There you go.
Dave: And get their opinion and pick their brain. Always learning.
Mark: Exactly.
Dave: I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks, right? Apparently?
Mark: It takes time.
Dave: It takes time, huh?
Mark: You can, yes.
Dave: Do you find you get away with a little bit more now, when you’re a little bit older these days, or?
Mark: Get away with what?
Dave: Just anything and everything.
Mark: I’ll have to think about that.
Dave: Yeah, I see your head, you’re-
Mark: think about that.
Dave: You’re saying no, but you’re shaking your head yes, for our listeners, they can’t see you shake your head yes.
Mark: Well, I’ve learned it from you, Dave. That’s what I would, how I’d answer that.
Dave: So let’s talk about the third takeaway we want to jump into is the strategy. Turning a lead into a sale.
Mark: My case, I would think, team selling, whether that’s professional services or maybe manufacturing. I’m going to take my production operator from the plant along with on that, maybe, sales call, to help convince the prospect or customer that we can take care of their needs. So you need to be technically strong. You need to be able to demonstrate that you can do the work and do the job.
So, I think, to close, testimonials don’t hurt either. You can have strong referral sources. Hopefully your relationship’s strong enough with your customer that, your existing customer base would support whatever, what they need to hear.
Dave: You know, we hear the term “commodity” thrown out a lot, no matter what industry it is, and I think you’ve worked hard over your career to try to stay out of the commodity game, as you go through your business development process and practices, and anything come to mind there that jump out that say, what have you done personally to try to stay away from being a commodity.
Mark: Well, I do have, in business, a profit motive. And I think if you get into too much of the commodity business, it drives down margins, drives down profits. You need to understand what, maybe, you’re good at, and what kind of products or services have value to the customer. And get yourself a little bit away from the commodity business. It’s not, the cheapest isn’t always the best.
Dave: So whenever the word “commodity” comes up, again, I like what you said, I think you gotta step back and look at your own particular business and say, “look, too much of commodity is not a good thing.” You know, volume doesn’t get it.
Mark: Yeah, I would think, if we’re good at something, we don’t need to practice. And running the equipment til it bails, or your people and asking hours and hours overtime, you know, why are we doing this? Let’s find our niche. Let’s find what we’re good at, that we can make a fair price, a fair profit, and move on. It’s okay to say no to some kinds of business.
Dave: Turning a lead into a sale, let’s talk about that in the few minutes we have left. Any comments there, any suggestions for our listeners on what you have used over your career?
Mark: So, I guess I would think about some consultant, you’ve probably used some of these folks too, Dave, but we’ll use hot buttons and bullets. Okay, you find out what that customer’s hot button is, where did their previous supplier fail, and either yourself, or one of your team members shows up at the same meeting, says, “here’s how we handle that problem at our company.” So, you’ve got almost a problem and a solution that you present, and if it sounds very similar to the problem that the customer has, your prospective customer, you’re more likely to close that deal.
Dave: You have to do, in the process, just a lot of listening. You must be a very, very good listener.
Mark: Occasionally. But exactly right, listening is all about, let the customer tell you what their problems are and what their concerns are. The fact that you’re at the table with them probably already gives you credibility, or you wouldn’t have been there. So, provide solutions, don’t do all the talking. I was guilty of that many times early in my career, and would tell them how we could handle their problems. Well, they want you to listen to their problems, and then provide solutions.
Dave: So listening is one of the keys that you’ve mastered. It sounds like you’ve had to work at that-
Mark: I had to work at it. We all do. But it [crosstalk 00:18:43], it works, yes.
Dave: So, listen, one. So, let’s kind of recap some of the things we’ve talked about in time we have left. Number one, building relationships, both internal and external. Extremely important, that’s one of the things that we heard you say. The second takeaway, the second item that we talked about are continue to create growth opportunities and develop marketing strategies, whether it’s your personal brand or not. And also the biggest part is you have to have a personal strategy or brand, whether it’s listening, or you do this with this lead, this customer, this client. It’s an ongoing process.
Mark: Certainly ongoing, and I think the strategy piece is, have a roadmap that maybe can help you achieve success, and have everyone understand that parts of that roadmap, work it, and see it through. Follow through whenever you can. If you say you’re gonna do something, do it.
Dave: And listen like the dickens, and embrace social media, cause it’s not going away.
Mark: We’ll work on the social media part.
Dave: We’ll work on that.
Mark: Yup.
Dave: I do think we do need to shout out, at the Rea marketing team, and their social media strategies and game plan. I think they do a wonderful job of helping us that don’t understand it get to there. So maybe we might have to have them on for the podcast one of the times.
Mark: We should have them talk a little bit and train us old dogs.
Dave: Our guest today is Mark Hoops, principal with Rea and Associates in their Lima, Ohio office. Thanks again for joining us on Unsuitable today, Mark.
Mark: Thank you, Dave.
Dave: You’ve really touched on some key points. Listeners, if you have any questions or want to learn more, you can always leave a comment or send an email to podcast at reacpa.com. If you want to see our podcast in action, well now you can, check out the Rea and Associates channel on YouTube to watch episodes of this podcast, and other great videos from Rea.
You didn’t realize you were going to be on YouTube today.
Mark: Do I get paid for that, do I get paid extra?
Dave: No, we signed a waiver at the door.
Mark: Okay.
Dave: You can also check out our website at reacpa.com/podcast for additional articles and insight. As always, don’t forget to subscribe to unsuitable on iTunes. Until next time, I’m Dave Cain, encouraging you to loosen up your tie and think outside the box.